Gender Roles in Coaching - with Rita Gladstone
Welcome
Episode Narration:to Racquet Fuel, where we launch into great conversations and share powerful tools to help you become a stronger rackets leader. Your hosts are Kim Bastable, a former all American tennis player and now the director of tennis management at the University of Florida. And Simon Gale, the USTA National Campus Director of Racquet Sports. Today on Racquet Fuel, we'll listen to respected head pro, Rita Gladstone, as she shares about the challenges and joys of working in the rackets industry as a female and a mom. Since only 20% of the professionals in racket sports are female, the questions are why and what can be done about it?
Episode Narration:Rita helps us highlight how females can balance a successful career and being a mother. And we discuss how leaders can positively inspire and manage females. Now here's Kim and Simon.
Kim Bastable:Welcome to Racquet Fuel. I'm Kim Bastable, here with my cohost, Simon Gale. How are you doing today, Simon?
Simon Gale:Kim, I'm very excited today because, a, we're talking with Rita Gladstone, but b, we are starting to look to promote, successful female stories in our industry. And I love that we we're gonna go down this road with more to come. So looking forward to it.
Kim Bastable:Yeah, this is definitely an important podcast. It's kind of one of the goals of this podcast is always to highlight success stories in leadership. We wanna focus today on successful leading females and inspire this generation and the next generation for, their career in Racquet's. And we have Rita Gladstone today who's just a leader in that particular junior tennis delivery part of our industry, sought after presenter and subject matter expert in tenant under tennis and child development. And she leads the program there at the National Campus with Simon.
Kim Bastable:Rita, we are super glad to have you, thanks for joining us.
Rita Gladstone:Thank you so much, it's a pleasure.
Simon Gale:So Rita, it's obviously great to have you on the podcast, we've worked together for a while and known each other a lot longer, So it's been exciting to work with you but we're hoping that this episode sheds light and inspires women who want to join our industry. So as a start, could you give us a bit of perspective on why women should consider the profession and the career of tennis?
Rita Gladstone:Sure. My first initial response to that question is that our industry really needs us. We have a sport that's growing and starting to thrive. And we have an equal number of boys and girls, men and women playing. But we are definitely disproportionately I think our deliverers tend to be, male coaches.
Rita Gladstone:And so so I just would love to see our industry just become a little bit more equally balanced with with our players and our coaches. And I can't emphasize enough as a reason for joining the profession as a female the impact you can have. Our sport is unique. It has so many opportunities young girls to compete at all levels through juniors, high school, and college. And it's just really important, I think, for that population to see coaches that look like them and that have gone through their path.
Rita Gladstone:So that's another great reason. And I think an industry that has where you can make an impact, is is great motivation and a and a great inspiration, I think, to join, pursue that pathway. And then then finally, you know, for me, a big one is is is the flexibility that it offered me and a career that really evolved over my life over the last twenty, twenty five years that I was able to have the flexibility to stay engaged with the sport. Starting out when my kids were very young through their school age years. And now I'm an empty nester.
Rita Gladstone:But throughout the way, was able to kind of stay engaged with the sport and contribute. And, you know, I was fortunate along the way to have, you know, opportunities and and support at each phase.
Kim Bastable:That's good, Rita. I think that's a great start to this conversation. The narrative around the tennis industry and in many other industries maybe as well, but for particularly ours is that it's difficult for a woman to be successful. And I know I particularly have problem with that situation, narrative, perception, however you wanna look at it. You've mentioned the positive work aspect of flexibility and interestingly how you were attracted to the industry after you had children versus driven away because you had children.
Kim Bastable:I think we think young people, once their life becomes family or females, once their life becomes rounded about of family, they drop out. But yours is the opposite. So I'd love to maybe you can give us the trajectory of your path and and how it went to, you know, leading to your successful career.
Rita Gladstone:When I, graduated college and after, you know, a brief playing career, I really made a concerted effort to kind of pursue some interests outside tennis. And I was a broadcast journalism major and spent about five years, you know, living in New York and kind of pursuing that career. And with the but after the birth of my my son and and moving to Florida, I made the choice that to to not work full time. That's what that I felt worked best for myself and my family at at the time. But then looking at what I could do to to bring in some extra income and also get out of the house, tennis was a natural choice.
Rita Gladstone:It was something I loved, I had a passion for, and I had a real comfort level. So I connected with the former coach, and it started with a couple of afternoons a week teaching at his facility. And then over the years, there were periods where I would scale up how much I worked and scale it back when my daughter was born. But throughout all of those phases, was able to stay engaged in the industry. And I'd say my husband and I really truly balanced our family life and work life.
Rita Gladstone:We had, I know take your child to work day was popular back a number of years ago, but I would say we had take your child to work weeks and months. So we were able to integrate our family life and work life together, which was really a highlight. And my teaching career almost kind of evolved along with my kids as they grew up where I focused on entry level and programs when they were younger. And then as they got older, I shifted into coaching and managing junior team tennis. I coached their high school teams.
Rita Gladstone:So it really provided a pathway for me to continue my trajectory in the industry and also stay involved with my kids' involvement in the sport. When the campus opened in 2016, I was really ready. I had been fortunate to be part of the USDA national training faculty, which was an incredible experience and really helped me, develop professionally. So when the campus opened and the position became available here, felt, you know, I was ready and at a time in my life when I could really dive in full time.
Kim Bastable:That's great. You know, I heard former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice quoted as saying that she was taught as a child that she would need to be twice as good as men to be successful. But she was actually inspired by that versus threatened and we saw where she ended up. But how do you respond to that idea? Have you felt it was necessary to be twice as good?
Rita Gladstone:Well, first of all, I love the narrative that, you know, seeing that as as a challenge and an opportunity rather than a threat or or a liability or something that would maybe steer coaches, you know, female coaches away from our industry. I don't know if I'd ever say I felt the pressure to be twice as good, but there were numerous times over the past fifteen years when I was presenting at workshops, district regional, pro meetings, and it would be myself, and there'd be one or two other female coaches in the audience, and the rest were male coaches. The ratio would be one to two females per 30 coaches. So at that point, did I feel a need to be twice as good? I don't know if I felt that, but I definitely felt a pressure to kind of represent females in our industry.
Rita Gladstone:So that was definitely a motivator. And luckily, I've had fantastic female role models in various roles throughout my life where I kind of felt a motivation. I want to be as good as they are. Maybe not necessarily feeling a pressure to be twice as good, but definitely feeling a responsibility to represent female coaches and let them know that I'm capable and and and can do the job.
Kim Bastable:So, Simon, you are Rita's leader on the campus, and you have many other females working on the campus, both in leadership positions and as staff pros. And I guess my question to you is, do you lead and manage your men and women employees differently?
Simon Gale:That's a great question and I think if I look at being in a leadership role, probably the last twenty five years of my career, you know, I think my ability to lead people has evolved from putting people not in boxes, but putting them in a situation where when I hire you, I need you to do this. To now, I wanna hire you but I wanna use you this way. Or let's work out what you're best at and let's make sure you're thriving for us versus I'm putting you into a space that maybe is not your best suit, but I need you to do it just because I need hours filled. So how I utilize people has evolved and I think as a manager, you're looking at all your staff, not just females. How do you shift your focus from maybe what they can't do or what you need them to have to do to finding out where they best fit and what they bring to the table that will make your programme stronger.
Simon Gale:And that way I might have somebody who only works twenty hours a week in two spaces instead of twenty hours a week in four spaces, and maybe they're not strong in two of those spaces. So how do I best fill the roles I need? And it's not male versus female. I think that's really important as a manager to make sure you're looking at just using people the best way possible, not separating them by gender.
Rita Gladstone:Yeah, and I think that'd be my experience. Think that the positive experience of being managed by male and female alike as a manager or director that really recognized where my strengths were and helped me hone those and develop those. And I think with 10 and under and some of the opportunities I had to develop my skills in that area, I think that was recognized. And then I had the resources and the opportunity to hone those skills and become really, really confident in delivering that area.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. I would say, Rita, I'd like to follow-up on that in sense of, you know, you're now, if I understand it correctly, running the Nemours family zone there at the campus. So you run, you know, 10 and under tennis, and so you manage people. And you have to do the same thing. You have to get people that love what they're doing.
Kim Bastable:And sometimes people don't love that 10 and under role. They prefer to be out on the high performance courts or or with others. So, you know, it's an it's it's just a leadership challenge for everyone, is to train the people. You know, you're not gonna like doing something you're not that familiar with. So if you're not very good at running under tennis, you might be afraid of it.
Kim Bastable:So I guess I would ask you both is like there's some aspect of helping to identify what people are good at and making sure they get in the seat on the bus where they feel confident can do well, but also to help them learn new things. So maybe there's a seat on the bus they don't even know they can do well, but they need that leadership guidance to learn it. You may or may not have experienced that, Rita, I don't know. How does that comment affect you?
Simon Gale:Let me jump in for a sec because I'm going to pose the same sort of question to Rita just based on our experiences is I think one of the things Rita does really well is to be able to take during the onboarding process, identify where people's strengths are in her space and then team teach, mentor and develop them one on one during classes, as well as running regular training sessions for your team and putting them in an environment to succeed and focus on what they're good at and then develop their weaknesses and bring somebody along for the ride versus maybe throwing them in the deep end and seeing if they can swim. Right. So I mean, how do you look at that? You're the one doing it out there each day.
Rita Gladstone:Yeah. And exactly. And I think within the 10 and under space, I think it's personally the best space for you to really get your teaching chops, so to speak, because you have to be fully, fully engaged. There's no shortcuts there. Yeah.
Rita Gladstone:And I think it's important, yes, to really identify where people's comfort level is. But I also think it's important as a leader in developing coaches that we've got to put them in places where they're uncomfortable because in any aspect, that's where real learning happens. We're also very aware of not pigeonholing our coaches as well. And this is something that, you know, over the years with a couple of colleagues, you know, that are my generation, you know, looking back to to early in their careers where maybe as a female coach, they were more pigeonholed into working with the youngest kids because, well, you're a female and you naturally are going be great with our four year old, so you're there. And that they very well need, but don't let that also blind you to the opportunities of contributions they could have elsewhere.
Rita Gladstone:So I think, to answer your question, I think it's super important that we enhance and recognize where they're strong, but also take the time and the effort where they aren't necessarily as strong that we work to develop them because it's going to come back and benefit your program tenfold in the long run.
Simon Gale:Great answer, thank you. Because it all comes back to developing people, right? As leaders that's our job, is to develop people. So I think all of you who are head pros here and anyone who leads a team, these are assessments of your team that are vital in order to have a vision for where we're headed and who's going to, as Kim said, get the right people on the right seats on the bus. So I'm just going to shift the focus a little bit to, or come back to why our industry is great, and the opportunities that maybe we don't sell as an industry for females to get into it.
Simon Gale:And could you present the argument that today it's different than it was in the past? You know, I remember when I was born, my dad wasn't allowed in the delivery room and mom gave birth and then dad came in after you were born. And fast forward thirty, forty years, dad's right there by your side. And we live in a different world where more and more women are focusing on a career path and pursuing a career and putting off having kids till till a little later in life. More and more families need two incomes to make it work.
Simon Gale:So given those, the evolution of how the family dynamic works, isn't it potentially a great industry to move into, considering that you could have an established career break for raising a family and then actually potentially come back to it? I think there's a skill set there that can carry you on through life and you're an example of it. Do you think we're selling why it's great versus focusing on maybe why or what the roadblocks are for females?
Rita Gladstone:I think we probably somehow default to that to find where it could break down or could go wrong, but you make a great point in that we could have a coach that for eight to ten years could be working in the industry full time. And then we all know generally as a general trend, women are having children a little bit later, maybe in their late twenties, early thirties, that they've got all of those years of development behind them. So when they come back, they can pick up right where they left off. And I think that's unique to our industry. I think if you're working in another field, having the flexibility to be able to jump back in for ten hours a week and then really, really make a contribution.
Rita Gladstone:Every group, every player you're in front of and engage with, if it's you can make a huge impact in ten or fifteen hours a week. And I think sometimes we don't realize what we can do. So I think for that reason, it does. It offers so many opportunities for females, and they're only going to continue to be more and more because we know our coaching population is aging, especially kind of in that director position. So the opportunities are just going to continue to unfold.
Kim Bastable:That's great, Rita. I was doing a little research on this for this call and I was realizing some of the studies have been done between gender and self confidence. One of the things that the researchers have found is that the role model, seeing yourself in the task, is very important for females particularly to feel strong. And so, you know, we don't have to be the first, you know, black female secretary of state like Condoleezza Rice was. She couldn't see anybody else of of her color and gender in that role.
Kim Bastable:But, fortunately, we do have some women in our role. How are role models important to you? What did you see, and how do you see yourself as a role model? Are you many people reaching out to speak to you? Are you talking to females particularly?
Kim Bastable:How's that role model piece worked and is working in your life?
Rita Gladstone:You know, it's a highlight of my role at the campus and really being able to work with young coaches of which we have a number of them here, both female and male. It's highlight and it's also it's a responsibility as well. And I take it seriously that we want to engage them and keep them in the industry. I see it with Simon's leadership as a really key part of my position here. And I think for attracting and retaining those female coaches is an attitude that we're going to invest in you.
Rita Gladstone:There's a pathway for your success. And, you know, they'll feel that, and then it comes back in contributions to your program, your your club, you know, tenfold. And I think with the racket sports industry itself kind of exploding, there are just so many other areas besides just tennis now and pickleball and paddell where coaching is going to be needed and embraced. For a young female coach, if you are talented, you have fantastic opportunities in front of you.
Simon Gale:And Kim, I really like what Rita said about having a sense of responsibility, that pay it forward mentality. I think when you've got twenty, thirty years experience in something, there's a responsibility to make sure you develop the people who are going to replace you at some point. And one of the things we hear often is is, you know, surround yourself with people who are better at something than you are and they make you look good. So I'm proud of the fact that here we have three of our five head pros are female. And it's critical because me trying to inspire females and attracting them to the industry is completely different than Rita.
Simon Gale:And I think that the ability for them to see a pathway and to hear her story and then be inspired on the court, the chances of them staying in the industry are so much higher. So I really value what she and the other females bring to the table because we wouldn't be able to achieve it as a group of males if we were all male leaders. It's important to me to have these people in these roles.
Kim Bastable:Well, I would like to say in that point, I mean, realistically, I think we've discussed this before, that is so important to have females in the roles. And I don't want to sugarcoat it and act like there aren't some challenges to being a female in the role. But as we discussed, there's challenges to being a male in the role. There's challenges men want to go home and watch a soccer game or be home for dinner. And the argument was always that, you know, women maybe couldn't teach the hours that were necessary, the after school hours, because they were in charge of the kids or something.
Kim Bastable:But I just think it's great to point out that as an industry, you know, work challenges are work challenges, and they're not just gender specific. So I haven't put this to you, Rita, but I'm gonna ask you, what were a couple of those challenges that maybe you had in your in your role that you had to, you know, kinda figure out?
Rita Gladstone:Yeah. Balancing the the time and and I I remember distinctly, there was there was something opportunity that came up to and it was just a it was just a volunteer assistant coach position at a local university, which I would have jumped at. And at that point, the age of my kids, it was something I just said, I can't do that. So there's definitely you had to make some decisions on what you could and couldn't accept, and so there definitely were things that I had to to pass on. But it was never an all or nothing type of job.
Rita Gladstone:It wasn't I always I always felt that that I could contribute in some ways, but there were definitely those times. And, again, when the when the kids were younger or my husband's, you know, I talked about the the work life family balance, which could probably be a separate podcast, but you just kind of have to work with your partner or spouse and how you each of you have to each kind of fill in the gaps. But I would definitely say the the the hours and what's needed to deliver tennis in general, a lot of those conflict with parenting hours. And for me, I was fortunate my kids really liked tennis. They were around it a lot, and I was able to blend my coaching with their learning and their experiences.
Rita Gladstone:So I think every situation, every person's situation is different. But having to say no to one opportunity, there's another one. And I think in an industry, I truly feel that if you're determined and and talented and have the skill set that you can find a place where you can contribute.
Simon Gale:And so I would start to present the argument and and I try and instil this in any female prober, especially a young one who's considering the career path is, if you can develop your skills and you're mentored well, and you have aspirations to keep growing, I think you could be gold in our industry. I think there's so many opportunities, and people are used to having male role models or male leaders, but you think of your average female beginner, young or older, to have a female to connect with versus a male teacher. I think women's teams, having a female teacher. There's so many things that I think you can bring to the table that maybe you just need to be reminded of, and you need to be shown how to do them well. But then I think your your pathway can accelerate so quick because I think more and more facilities will be looking for female leads and I think they bring a lot to the table.
Simon Gale:So I think the ability for young females to see that pathway and have people like yourself and Kim and so on say, look, there is an opportunity, stick with it, but you need to be good in these areas and focus on developing. So I think you you just got to manage them like we talked about earlier. You've got to manage them differently, not differently than males, but just manage each person differently, and develop their skills, and I think there's massive opportunities given the state of our industry and the people that will be moving out of leadership roles over the next ten years. So what do you guys think about that? Any thoughts on, you know, am I right, wrong with that thought process?
Kim Bastable:I would say you're dead right. I mean, think that's exactly where we are. Young people that are female and have experience, they can write their own ticket, they can select whatever club, whatever part of the country they wanna go to. I think it's interesting. Another part of the research says that one of the differences between the men and the women is women prefer more clarity and need more clarity than men do.
Kim Bastable:And I think that's kind of an interesting thing is I think if a girl needs more clarity or female and they don't get it from their manager, they're not sure what the definition of success is. They're they're just not sure what the boss wants in terms of a a teaching style or, you know, whether they want fun in the clinic or they want strict instruction in the clinic. I mean, that leaves a young female frustrated and potentially are are gonna leave the industry. I'm not sure that's gonna be different in the next industry they go to. They like clarity.
Kim Bastable:So that's something I would say female managers should know the difference between men and women. Women need some clearer definition to the way they're given feedback. Specific is better than general. So no. But I think women are they need to be in this job.
Kim Bastable:As Farida said at the very, very outset, we need women role models because we have half of our players are are women. Rita, what other thoughts do you have or even suggestions of how we can get more women, young women into this career?
Rita Gladstone:Presenting all of these positives, the impact being responsibility, the impact that they can have and the potential job opportunities and leadership opportunities. And I know that especially the young tennis girls are coming. Coco golf, I think we're looking at a potential boom in young girls entering our sport. I see it on a daily basis. I've heard from, it's interesting, from a lot of dads where they specifically choose tennis for their daughter as a sport that they want her to do.
Rita Gladstone:And, and I think they really, you know, embrace and and want female role models for them. So I think it's it's a it's a wonderful time. And as Simon said, directors all over the country will jump at the chance if they have a talented solid female coach.
Kim Bastable:So I guess the answer is if a young female starts out in our profession and then hits a leadership, you know, where people aren't willing to work around maybe their schedule, like you said, Simon, maybe for three months they have to take maternity leave. But if and if you have a leader who won't work with your schedule in order to get the benefits of having a female on staff, then, that female needs to find a a new opportunity. You said you would consider that well worth working around.
Simon Gale:Yeah. We've done it here multiple times and and I've done it at every club. It's what stage of life are you in? Where are you at with your kids and your family, when can we use you and how do we make the best use of you because at some point, they're going to be able to give you a little bit more too or a little bit less. But your loyalty to them and willingness to work with them around their family setup will come back to pay itself tenfold over time because you've created an environment that's conducive to them being successful.
Kim Bastable:Well we've talked a lot about this subject today in terms of the challenge, but also the opportunity. We know that women are welcome in this. We have only 20% of our current certified teaching staff as as female, but that number we're working hard in the industry. This is another effort through Racquet Fuel to to work hard to get the the word out. So we will continue to do that.
Kim Bastable:As I say, let's find some solutions and not excuses for why, you know, women may be, not have a role. They should have a role. They should have a role whether it's forty hours a week or for a time less than that. There's always a possibility in in Racquet's to make it happen to the benefit of everyone. We appreciate your time, Rita.
Kim Bastable:Do you have any final thoughts of just kind of how you can inspire young people?
Rita Gladstone:Just get yourself out there. And if it's starting small, that's that's fine. But just, you know, get to get yourself out there. And and and I'm a firm believer in putting yourself in a position where where you're not comfortable. I think that puts you in a position to learn the greatest.
Rita Gladstone:So that would be my kind of final words for the female coaches and and coaches in general, not just female coaches, is just jump in then, you know, get comfortable being uncomfortable. It's a great way to learn.
Kim Bastable:I love that. That's a perfect way to end it, and we all do need to be a bit uncomfortable at times. It makes us better. So we appreciate your time. We're done with today, and we really would look forward to seeing you again here on Racquet Fuel.
Episode Narration:That's all for today, but we're not out of fuel. You can find more information and resources in our show notes and by visiting racquetfuelpodcast.com. If you liked what you just heard, please subscribe. And also, leave a review, which helps other people join the mission to become stronger Racquet's leaders.
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