The First Step After Resignation: Reimagine, Don’t React
Are you ready to take the next step in your Racquet's career? Personal brand management for the Racquet's industry is a new self paced virtual course from the University of Florida. It's built to meet the high demand for guidance in job search and interview support. You'll get expert tools, an exclusive interview chatbot, and a thirty minute career consultation. Be one of the first 100 to enroll with code welcome 40 for $40 off at uf-dors.com.
Kim Bastable:That's welcome40@uf-dors.com. See you in class.
Episode Narration:Welcome to Racquet Fuel, where we launch into great conversations and share powerful tools to help you become a stronger rackets leader. Your hosts are Kim Bastable, a former all American tennis player and now the director of professional rackets management at the University of Florida, and Simon Gale, the USTA senior director of racket sports development.
Kim Bastable:Now
Episode Narration:here's Kim and Simon.
Kim Bastable:Welcome to Racquet Fuel. We're back again today, Simon and I, and we're gonna have a little discussion on a subject that is affecting Simon really directly and just something we think all leaders deal with at some point, and that is losing key personnel. What are the steps involved with managing through that? There's also, of course, losing any personnel that requires you to kick into gear and rehire, but losing a key person that's maybe more strategic in their role is even trickier. Simon, this is gonna be interesting.
Kim Bastable:You you're kinda living this and breathing this, and you've seen it happen a a few times in your career, but particularly most recently. What are you feeling today as you found out that that your key person was leaving? What what what are your first initial thoughts and reactions to that?
Simon Gale:Well, when we were speaking the other day and talking about possible episodes and things we could talk about, you know, I suggested to you that this is real. It's something that leaders deal with all the time and how do you handle that? How do you react? And what are the steps involved to to replace that person? So when I started writing down the things I've been going through and and how I look to the replacement, it's extensive and it's, you know, we've talked about it, it's all consuming.
Simon Gale:It's something you're thinking about constantly because it's critical you get this person right. This person could be with you for the next five, ten years. It's a very important decision. Yeah. I'm excited to talk about it and review where we are and and what this looks like.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. This is the challenge of leadership, I think, and this is where it doesn't go to bed at night when you you lay down because you're just constantly thinking about how to grow and innovate. And this particular role is one that you hired back when we were saying, used to be a director of tennis. Think about what's happened in the last four years with our our industry. So you're now hiring for the next four years, what whatever that's gonna bring.
Kim Bastable:So you have to be very thoughtful about, I would assume, really almost reevaluating the job description that you had from the previous hire. How have you gone about that? How have you reevaluated what you're really hiring for now?
Simon Gale:You know, I think if we go back a step, one of your first questions was, you know, the initial reaction and and how you react to this meeting you have with somebody who in this case was a very close friend as well as just a great coworker. But when you get that text message or email and says, could we meet? Nine out of 10 times when someone asks you that, you know they're about to tell you they're leaving or they're going to ask for some more money, one or the other. And there's an initial disappointment and I think one of the things that I've gotten better at over the years is twenty years ago when somebody would tell me they were leaving, I think I took it a little more personally and it took longer to kind of recover from that and focus on what's next. So despite losing a critical person, it turned quickly to, okay, what do I need to do to get ready for what's next and what are the steps I need to go through?
Simon Gale:And I had started a document already to a, what am I going to do with this person for the next two weeks? How do I best utilize them and and meet with them to understand and ask some questions, but then also start preparing. So immediately, there was a a document that the two of us put together about just where they're at, things they're in the middle of that I'm going to need to pick up, as well as we did something where we really wanted to look at making sure the transition was smooth and our communication to our staff was clear. Was this an opportunity for this person to move on to or were there problems And your staff are going to ask all those questions and wonder and gossip about it. But can you send out a clear message to your team between the two of you that, hey, this was just a great opportunity and the time was right, but we've had an amazing four or five years together and we've achieved a lot.
Simon Gale:Send this person off with a great farewell and acknowledge an amazing job that they've done. And I think that shows your staff that turnover is normal and it's not the end of the earth and you have to move on and work towards what's next and how do we how do we get better.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. I mean, that's good. That's a it's an important point to make that, yes, you can lose key personnel for a variety of reasons. In this case, someone was moving on to a great opportunity, but it has to be well communicated. And sometimes that might not be the case, and it still has to be well communicated.
Kim Bastable:So that is the first first trickiness. And in your case, you said you've had him for two weeks to work with him. That might not always be the case as well. Might be that they are immediately leaving for some reason.
Simon Gale:Or,
Kim Bastable:frankly, they could have left maybe for a health reason, which meant it was immediate. There was no more conversation to be had. So, yeah, it's those are two con consideration in your case. You were able to plot a new course with him. But so let's let's go there.
Kim Bastable:Like, you kind of reimagined this role, I guess, was the next step. I don't know what other things did you have to reimagine as you're entering the hiring phase.
Simon Gale:Yeah. Look, I think one of the things that we wanted to establish was there something we did. Was it something on our end? Did did you not get developed? Did you were you mismanaged?
Simon Gale:Were you not happy with the the job? Was it too administrative heavy and you weren't getting a chance to develop people? Can you get an open and honest conversation around the issues? And and generally, when someone's leaving, they'll tell you more than when they're working with you. Sometimes they'll open up a little bit more and if the situation's healthy enough that you can have that conversation, you can get a lot from them about how their job satisfaction was and what you can do to maybe edit the job description or that scope of work and what they do daily to enable what you thought they were focused on to actually happen versus they got so in the weeds and knee deep in administration that they couldn't focus on the major task that would be the top three things they need to focus on.
Simon Gale:So how do you reword, rehash the job description to reflect what the job actually is, but then also what are we going to look like in three to five years' time? Who do I need and what does description look like moving forward versus you just copy and paste the old job description and go find a person? I think that's a really important process. You should do it annually anyway, just keep editing job descriptions. But when you have a turnover like this of a key person, you've really got to take a look at that and get their feedback to help shape what that looks like moving forward.
Kim Bastable:We talked about the fact that when people have stable jobs, sometimes they begin to focus on their one club, their one facility, and they're a little bit less thinking about the industry as a whole. They're less asking questions of other people in other facilities and clubs, you know, a little bit less network focused. But this is a time when you needed to rely on some people outside of maybe your USTA campus to provide you some thoughts and inspiration for where this job might go, the types of personnel that might be available. What did you lean on to help, you know, just even outside of USTA?
Simon Gale:Yeah. It's a good point. I I I think at this stage of my career, you know, I've worked really hard on networking and and who do I know that could help just brainstorm? You know, there's so many questions and sometimes when you get outside your world and you just ask an open question to somebody you respect, you're gonna get some great answers and they'll make you think about things a little differently. You're in this process and when you start asking questions of of people you respect, like, what do you think this position's worth in the industry?
Simon Gale:What do you think it's gonna take to find someone to elevate this position? Could we even upgrade from an amazing person we had? What does an upgrade look like? And and if you understand what, say, the campus is from an outside point of view, who are some people you think would be appropriate for this job? And it's amazing what feedback you get.
Simon Gale:When you talk to I probably talked to a dozen people in the last two weeks. There's a consistency to some of their answers and you start to say, okay, it's not me thinking this way, the market's saying this about the type of person compensation. What in their opinion, what is this place? Is it what I think it is? And if it is, and I'm off, I need to maybe reframe my thinking.
Simon Gale:So it's a really interesting process versus I've got this and I know what I need. So it's outside, but then then internally, I worked through all my key leaders and said, look, we've lost a great person. How did they impact you? What were they doing with you that worked really well? What do you wish they did more of?
Simon Gale:And what do you think the next person needs to bring to the table from a skill set point of view, but also type of character? And I would ask questions. I just went through this process yesterday with three key people and said, what do you think our culture is? What's a cultural fit for this next person versus skills? I think there's plenty with the skills that'll be out there, but we need someone who's gonna mesh with our team.
Simon Gale:We have a great culture. This person could ruin your culture in three months. So getting some buy in from my staff was really important for me so they feel like they're part of the process and they'll be part of the interview process too. I want sign off from my key people to say, yeah, this is someone that we really think would fit with us. So that's all been part of the process.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. I love that that you asked the question of the people that this new hire will manage. I think that's so empowering, and they feel a part of it. They feel listened to. They feel cared for.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. I mean, you have to now kind of follow through on that. If you do that inquiry and then you go off on your own and hire someone that's a full misfit, boy, are they gonna be unhappy, and then you've got a second set of problems. So, yeah, really key that you make those interviews. And so it just goes to show, I mean, this isn't just like the person gives their two weeks.
Kim Bastable:You might chat about what the next feature is and then you post the job. Right. It's hardly that, is it? And there's quite a bit.
Simon Gale:Well, we're three weeks. It's almost four weeks now since the announcement and I haven't posted yet. I'm I'm working through this to get it right and part of this transition was getting other people to step up and cover some of the responsibilities. I've stepped down into that role and taken some of those responsibilities. We're all going to be working a little harder for a while, but I'm going to take a few months to get this right.
Simon Gale:And this is different than hiring somebody who may be more of a task or a doer type employee. This is someone who is a strategic thinker and managing people and developing people. So three or four months to get this right for a five year, ten year or longer hopefully, it's a very small amount of time in order to get the right person for a long term fit. Because if I don't get it right, I'll spend so much time managing this person that that's counterproductive for where we're headed. So establishing a timeline, working with your HR department or or whoever is is helping you or an interview committee that you establish so that you get a broad perspective on this person versus I made the hire.
Simon Gale:Part of that's to protect yourself, think, to say there was a group of us involved to make this decision and maybe I missed a few things. It's interesting when someone says, you know, I didn't like the way they answered this question because and I said, well, I thought they answered that question. Great. So they make you think differently. I think that difference of opinion is really important.
Simon Gale:So establishing the timeline and what things and steps are involved to get to the final decision. And it's it's extensive when you look at screening, initial interviews, having them do some sort of survey to get some understanding of how they think, forming committees, setting up lengthy interviews, then I need you to come to the campus and do an in person for a day, day and a half. Do they need to submit some sort of work history demonstrating how they've built facilities and built teams or that might be a portfolio to so to speak. It's extensive. So it's gonna be at least three months and you have to be okay with that.
Kim Bastable:And how are your interview questions formulated? Have you sort of gone back? I'm sure you have a stock set of interview questions that you generally use. Have you gotten to that stage? Maybe that's further down the road.
Kim Bastable:Maybe you aren't even there yet. But, yeah, I'm I'm assuming you eventually will really devise some interesting questions that go along with this job description that you're formulating.
Simon Gale:Yeah. I think when you look at your team and the different layers within your team, they all have different responsibilities and different job titles. The questions obviously can't be the same. So if I'm interviewing for a part time pro versus a full time pro versus a senior leader, I'm gonna ask different questions. So I haven't had to ask these questions for five years.
Simon Gale:So I've got to put them together. I have kind of brainstormed some topics, things I wanna touch on, whether it's people management, making critical decisions, dealing with conflict, leadership style, how would you handle this situation, really trying to get some open questions where they have to reflect on their career and be able to present examples and then we can talk about it. I like to have a question and then if we go for ten minutes and go off on some tangents and explore that, I really enjoy that process because I feel like the second or third questions where I'm actually gonna learn something about them versus I have a list of five or six questions and I just churn them out and get fairly common answers. I like to dig a little deeper and see what else they can come up with. So that sounds great but if you've only got forty five minutes, you do need to get through all your questions.
Simon Gale:So it's a process and then who do I want on my interview committee that represents multiple angles or aspects of our business and what questions are good for them to ask. And then you go through the process of reviewing their answers and grading those answers and saying whether it's a some sort of rubric around a a b c or one through five. Because once you do five, ten, 15 interviews, sometimes you look back and say, I don't remember what I don't remember what Kim said to my first question. So we'll write in the answers or now with AI, you can just get a transcript of it which is incredibly helpful and start to build a file on this person that you can then as a team reflect back on and say, yep, no, maybe, let's move them to the next step. So it's spreadsheets and Google Docs and making a system that works for us.
Kim Bastable:It's interesting when you hear all of that, I immediately think about you have a role that you're generally doing on a day to day basis. Someone comes, it's a key person, and tells you they're leaving. Like you said, you're stepping now into their role. So your forty eight hours a week has now added some of their role. You might have gotten other other people to step up.
Kim Bastable:And then you have to spend how many hours a week? Like, I'm guessing a considerable amount of time on this replacement. You're doing their job, and you're adding the role of replacing them. So I think what can get to the leader is this sense of how to get this person hired so that I can go back to what I was doing before. And you now say it's gonna be three or four months of juggling multiple roles and time and and going through this extensive interview process.
Kim Bastable:I am assuming you've done this before at some level. Have you had the feeling of urgency, like, I just have to hire someone, or can you stay calm and patient and wait for the right person? What has been your tendency?
Simon Gale:Yeah. It's a good question. I think, again, if I reflect back and look at ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, how I would have handled, I think there's a bigger sense of urgency to fill the role, almost like a Band Aid fix, and I think that's really dangerous. I think you have to be very strategic and take a breath. You know, they have things like the Calm app now, so I can turn that on and lay down for five minutes when I need a breath, Kim.
Simon Gale:But it's it's something that's you know you need to get the right person, but you can't knee jerk and get someone you think is great without really vetting and doing a a broader search. Because there might be a diamond in the rough out there that you come across or someone you didn't think or maybe you think the compensation is not high enough to get the person you really want. But sometimes people are at an interesting stage of their life and they are looking for a meaningful role and will make a lateral move. So there's a lot of factors and that takes time to go and work through that process. But yes, there's another half a job description that I just took on and the initial like, this person left last Friday and I'm at the end of week one without him.
Simon Gale:And there was a couple of moments this week where I just paused and said, okay, I got this. But it was becoming overwhelming. That's where delegation kicked in. I looked around and said, here's my task list. Someone else can do this.
Simon Gale:These are things I have to do. I took the time. It took some time to to to delegate and then set the person up for success and then it was done. But I felt better immediately. So it really tests your delegation skills and you you appeal to the people that were just below this person and say, I need you to step up into their role and handle the following things.
Simon Gale:So that's a process and you've got to write it down and present it. But once it's done, it just unloads so much off your shoulders. You're able to say, okay, can handle this. I got this. And you're never gonna be able to do the whole role.
Simon Gale:It's impossible, I can't do two jobs. But I can do enough to be successful in that role and explain to the team, hey, I'm the new point person, but I need you to filter things through this person before you come to me. That I've gotten better at over time.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. The skills you also need to develop is that of a salesman. You need to sell the people below you that they need to add some time, maybe feel that they're overworked or taxed a bit more, but there's a purpose in that. It's good experience for them. There's good opportunity for them to show that they can do things.
Kim Bastable:And then you're gonna be selling this role to some of the people that are coming through your interview, explaining the benefits of being at your facility, those types of things. So sales, is that another double down on the sales skill?
Simon Gale:Think you're always selling, right? You're selling your vision, you're selling your why, you're not convincing, but you're driving people towards that end goal, that target. Where where are we trying to get to? This is a moment in time where I need you to help me. It's how you sell it.
Simon Gale:Right? It was more, I need your help. Are you willing to help? And where do you think you can help? This is where I think you can help.
Simon Gale:Do we agree on these things? Okay. Let's let's set up a weekly half hour and I wanna check-in on how you're doing with those things, but I trust you to go and deliver. I think if you've got a stable team and you've been stable for a while, like we haven't had a key leader. My my senior leadership group have all been here on average six to seven years.
Simon Gale:If you're turning this role over every eighteen months to two years and you're losing key people, then I think that wears thin quickly. It's it's more, hey, six months of every year I'm doing two jobs. I don't get compensated extra for that. I'm starting to get itchy feet myself because I'm not happy because I'm doing a lot of extra work and it's not being acknowledged. When you ask somebody once in five years, I don't think it's a big ask.
Simon Gale:When you explain, hey, I think this is a three to five month process, whatever the timeline is, I would be disappointed if they didn't agree to help you out. Because hopefully, you've done enough for them that this is just a natural, I'll put my hand up coach, let me let me help.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. You built the team, you have people around, everybody's stepping up. Like you said, the reserves are coming in off the bench. And so it's really a leadership challenge, but it's less of a challenge when you've already done your leadership development and you have this whole team in place. You have a culture of partnership and everyone has the correct buy in for the right reasons.
Kim Bastable:And
Simon Gale:Well, it challenges your team, doesn't it? It challenges whether you've built a team. If you've built a team where you've had their back, they have your back, this is just a moment that everybody it wasn't even a discussion. It was kind of, hey, how can we help you? It was the immediate answer.
Simon Gale:That to me is the sign that this director who's leaving built a great team, but together in this leadership role, we've built a team that is willing to step up when needed and that's kinda nice when I haven't thought of it, but as you asked the question, it's, hey, this team is a really good team. We knew it, but they're demonstrating it right now and I think that's pleasing to see.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. And I believe there's a lot of people who benefit from those interim step ups. They get to try something out, try roll out, try to do something, get small exposure in a safe way knowing that's not really their ultimate job, but they get to try new things, get exposed to new information. There are some really perks to being on a team that has a bit of an opening at the top, and they get to grow. So this yeah.
Kim Bastable:This is your chance, I guess, to evaluate for the future, maybe your staff below this key leader.
Simon Gale:Yeah. There's a couple of things there. I think the opportunity for them to step into the role partially, I think it exposes them to walking in that person's shoes a little bit. And also maybe says, hey, you know what? Maybe I have an interest in this role.
Simon Gale:I've never thought of myself in this role, but maybe and I made that clear to all of those key leaders below the director to say, hey, when this person goes live, if you feel this is something you're interested in, you should apply. You should go through the process. And if they're not the correct candidate, they'll have learnt more about the role and been exposed to it. But I don't want to discount them as potential replacements and make them feel like, well, you're only capable of doing what you do. It's the least I can do is say, you've been here a long time.
Simon Gale:If you think this is a role that suits you, please, by all means, apply and let's go through the process. I'd love to hear how you think you can elevate this role and make a difference moving forward.
Kim Bastable:That's good leadership and that you haven't shut the door there and, like, you're acknowledging. Even the process of going through the interview would be very educational even if they sort of know they maybe they're not quite qualified yet. So that's it's actually you can see there are benefits. Everything we have in in in life that challenges us often provides us also these interesting lessons and the ability to shine in ways we never thought we could. So in some ways, can see that multiple places in your situation.
Simon Gale:Yeah. And we've used it in those conversations to be able to say, where are you in this process? How has this impacted you? What's your motivation? You've been here a long time now.
Simon Gale:What's your motivation for coming in? Nobody forces you to work here. So what's your why and what are you motivated for? And, you know, they could be looking for another job right now and just tell me what I want to hear, But I want to know it's kind of a staff health check for me or a staff audit to say, are you here for a couple more years or what's your plan at the moment? Are you happy in your job?
Simon Gale:You use this to evaluate your team and then we actually went through every person who works for us in this department and said, pluses, minuses, areas for growth, how are they doing, what's their capacity to grow into the next roll up and what have you been working on. And and we we really did a staff health check to say, how are we doing? And you use a moment like this to pause and reflect on your team a little bit. So you've got to turn it into something more than just filling the role. This is a reshaping of our team a little bit because they're such a key leader.
Kim Bastable:That's pretty good summation. I really like that. Thanks for sharing about this situation because I think it is a situation many leaders face, how you're navigating it, how you're using it to benefit campus, benefit your team. It's all exciting. Is there any one thing that you would say is a summation of of this conversation?
Simon Gale:Look. Change is constant, isn't it? It it it you hear that saying a lot. You want to learn from somebody leaving. How do we get better?
Simon Gale:How do we grow? What does the next person need to do for me? What do we look like in the future and and let's hire for that? It's never personal unless you were a poor leader, you know, could have been personal, but hopefully it's because of an opportunity and it wasn't something you did. But if it was, you need to learn from it and become better because the better you are as a leader of key people, hopefully the retention of those people will will improve over time and you know, four to five years out of a key person is is pretty good these days.
Simon Gale:So I think if I could do that again, I would say we built a long nice solid team for a decent amount of time and these days are gonna come and they don't surprise me, but you're always disappointed, but it's okay. You get up and move on.
Kim Bastable:You get up from your very short night of sleep as you were thinking this through most
Simon Gale:of night. Exactly.
Kim Bastable:Alright, Simon. Thanks for sharing. We appreciate it, and that's what we have for you today on Racquet Fuel. We hope you've learned from this leadership challenge. We'll speak to you again soon.
Episode Narration:That's all for today, but we're not out of fuel. You can find more information and resources in our show notes and by visiting racquetfuelpodcast.com. If you liked what you just heard, please subscribe, and also leave a review, which helps other people join the mission to become stronger Racquet's leaders.
Conclusion:This podcast is a production of Athlete Plus, the people, stories, science behind elite athletes and teams. Athlete Plus is the official podcast network of the Institute for Coaching Excellence, a research, education, and outreach center in the College of Health and Human Performance at the University of Florida. The Institute for Coaching Excellence offers various online certificate programs and degrees in partnership with the Department of Sport Management. Learn more today at coaching.hhp.ufl.edu.
