Season 1 and 2: Recap
Hello. This is Kim Bastable. And I just wanted to let you know that we had a bit of sound issue on recording this upcoming episode, but we appreciate your patience. It's good content, and I think you'll enjoy it. Here we go.
Episode Narration:Welcome to Racquet Fuel, where we launch into great conversations and share powerful tools to help you become a stronger Racquet's leader. Your hosts are Kim Bastable, a former all American tennis player and now the director of tennis management at the University of Florida, and Simon Gale, the USTA senior director of Racquet Sports Development. Today on Racquet Fuel in this preseason three bonus episode, Simon and Kim highlight and discuss some of the impactful things they've learned from their guests during seasons one and two of the podcast. Here's Kim and Simon. Welcome
Kim Bastable:to Racquet Fuel. We are excited in this episode to do a season recap, highlights from season one and season two episodes of Racquet Fuel podcast from the past. We encourage you to go back and listen. We're gonna highlight some topics, but I think you'll find some definitely more interesting information if you go back and listen to the entire episode. So I'm excited for today, Simon.
Kim Bastable:How are you feeling?
Simon Gale:Yeah. Me too. Because I I literally spent the weekend listening to a whole season back to back. It's hard to hear my own voice that often, but the speakers were great, there's some great takeaways. So looking forward to highlighting those.
Kim Bastable:The point of our efforts here overall on Racquet Fuel is just to really point out the complexity of leadership in general and then discuss specifics with regard to the challenges, both new and old challenges within the director of Racquet Sports position. So from these discussions, we just want to provide some more action items for the listener to enhance your leadership or improve your career. So we're going to cover several topics here that are just the ones that you know, there were a lot of good ones, but we just sort of found that these were more that Simon and I wanted to to unpack. So one of the first was our our our interview with Craig Morris. He's the chief of community tenant for the USTA, and he what he oversees is the certification in working with USPTA and PTR.
Kim Bastable:And one of the comments that he made, and I think that we would all resonate with, is that he didn't think that enough young people are seeing this as a career that they are being attracted to. And, you know, while that's true, I I would argue that our industry is changing pretty fast. We have many new sports under the roof of Racquet's programmes and it might be more attracting. A lot of young people are actually now being drawn to pickleball. I know of one person who was a college football player who had turned to pickleball and was a teaching pro at a at a club.
Kim Bastable:So are younger people going to be more attracted maybe with our multi sport environment, Simon?
Simon Gale:It's a great point too because it's an interesting moment in time in the industry. We might start to see people who bypass the tennis industry and go straight to one of the complementary racket sports too. So you're gonna see current tennis pros, and it's already happened, where they're adding Padel, obviously, Padel in the Northeast has been around quite a while, could be squash, but also now pickleball, and they're forced to learn these sports because their clubs wanna add more revenue streams. So you're gonna continue to see that trend, but you're also gonna see new trends, which I can't forecast what they're gonna look like, but I I I see people who maybe say, you know what? I'm just gonna go straight into one of these other sports.
Simon Gale:I'm not gonna do the tennis pathway. I'm gonna do the complementary racket sports pathway. And maybe they circle back to tennis as well and add that if they become a leader at a club. So it's gonna be fascinating to watch that unfold. I'd love to have a crystal ball and know, but it's exciting to be part of how that will unfold.
Simon Gale:And I think tennis is gonna need to do a really good job of selling why tennis and the pathway for tennis so that we we we get these people into tennis as well, not just Racquet Sports.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. I think we're gonna talk a little bit in the more about the the balance between programming and lessons and just general court play in all of these sports, and they all have kind of different combinations of that. And then there's the idea is should someone be more of a specialist? Should you be an entirely a Paddell pro because you can develop clientele and maybe enthusiasm around a sport if you stuck to one sport, or is there a balance in being a little bit of both and doing a little tennis and a little Paddell or little tennis and a little pickleball? I guess from the point of view of attracting people into our sport, I mean, that's just really the goal.
Kim Bastable:I think it's you know, Craig Morris makes the the comment that, you know, we're just not doing that well. We all as an industry really need to think about how we can do that better.
Simon Gale:Well, and I also think, you know, we've talked about in ten years time, are we going to see someone who was not a tennis pro, who was a Padel or pickleball pro go through the career pathway of being the pro, being a head pro, becoming a director of a multi sport, including tennis. And now you've got someone who has a pickleball or paddell background leading the tennis department. It's highly possible and there's no reason that won't happen. So again, it's fascinating to think about what that could be. And five years ago, there's no way we'd we'd be even talking about this.
Simon Gale:So I think it's interesting, and and I think it will attract more people and a diversity of audience too, which can't do all of these sports any harm at all.
Kim Bastable:You know, I think it's a little bit been I heard the other day, and I think it's pretty brilliant, a disservice to the tennis industry that Hollywood has portrayed the tennis pro as kind of a bit of a doof sometimes, not the professional that he and she is, nor in thinking about how complex this job is. And so maybe I'm thinking that the addition of all these multiple racket sports is going to make this look like quite a conglomerate and a very difficult job and actually, it's leadership overall. It's not necessarily about rackets.
Simon Gale:And it's funny you say that because when I listened to Len Samad in season two, he talked about the evolution of a tennis director. And twenty years ago, it was how well you taught and you were on the court thirty to forty hours. I think you or both of you pointed that out. And how now it's about running great events, being present, being visible, being able to present to a committee on on budget needs and staffing and compensation. It's very little to do with forehands and backhands.
Simon Gale:There's an expectation you know what you're doing on the court. If you're going for those sort of jobs, you you you should already be there. But the skill set is very different. And when you have to now manage three sports, not just one, and three different staffs, and three different types of events for your club and your members or your players, that adds a lot to the dynamic. So it's going to be incredibly dynamic job, but you have to switch hats and roles very quickly and manage now three leaders in a department, not just the tennis leader.
Simon Gale:That's fascinating too, that's a completely different skill set and who's trained for that? We're all learning it on the fly, how to run Padel, how to run pickleball. Paddle's been around a lot longer, so pros are more seasoned in that, but it wasn't long ago that it was a part time pro who did the paddle program up in the Northeast and the full time pro came down to Florida for the winters. So that's evolved over the last fifteen years or so as well. So, yeah, it's a we could talk about this for an hour, but there's a there's a theme there, and I think it's gonna be interesting to see how it plays out.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. And I I personally think that it comes down to a lot of encouragement by someone in our industry to get new people into our industry. I had someone come up to me when I was about 24 and tell me that they were hiring for air traffic controllers down at a private airport in our city. And I never once thought about being an air traffic controller and thought, wow. Somebody must have thought I had what it would take to do that.
Kim Bastable:And I didn't think very long because it wasn't interesting, but I thought, because somebody had pointed that out to me, it was on my radar. And then I later on had somebody call me and ask me if I would wanna become a very high up executive's executive assistant because I think I had enough attention to detail. I was, you know, 24 in age. And so it just brings you back to people. I thought about those jobs and was very flattered by those jobs because people sought me out.
Kim Bastable:And I think it comes down to getting more people in our career is that we can be so powerful to seek out people to bring up to people the idea that this is a great career. And I I just wonder if we do that enough. Do you do you do that? Do you do you hear people doing that? Do you do it yourself?
Simon Gale:I try. But at the average club, if you're teaching, running a staff, reporting to committees and being asked to do more and more in a leadership role, you should always make time. That's easy to say, but there's not always time to spend an hour with all your staff members or grab a kid who's in a high school program you have and say, you should come and work at summer camp. You're so great with kids. I mean, we hear those stories all the time about how people got started and it was somebody said, hey, you're a good player.
Simon Gale:You're great with the kids. You should come and do summer camp. And that leads to, now you should try working with some adults and suddenly you're you're a teaching pro. You know, it just kinda happens by accident. But somebody put that idea in your head.
Simon Gale:And so I think now more than ever, we need to tell that story more and inspire more because I think those people are at our at our doorstep in the past and I'm not sure how many of them are knocking these days compared to back in the day. So are we as attractive and do we have to sell more than we used to? I think we do. I think we all have to take that seriously. And if we're all trying to grow coaching by four, six, eight, twelve coaches a year from within our programmes and local communities, does that help fill or feed that funnel of new coaches?
Simon Gale:And they don't all have to be future leaders, they could be working at ground level and working with entry level players, but we need to help feed the funnel because I think it's more competitive than ever to catch a young person's interest. And what better time than in high school when they're playing at your club or on on your team than after college when they've already started to make a career decision.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. I think the after college part is probably almost almost too late, but not entirely. I mean, most people come out of college unsure of their next steps. But so okay. So another thing, Alastair McCall was was quoted as saying, first, you get paid for what you do, then you get paid for what you know, and then you get paid for who you grow.
Kim Bastable:So I thought that was definitely feeding on the same theory as it's up to us to grow the people within our cultures. And a little bit of that is capturing that young person on the court and inspiring them to wanna get to a culture. So who are you growing, Simon?
Simon Gale:That's interesting too, because when you first start out in the industry, it's all about you and it's all about my hours and my paycheck and my clients. And then at some point, you evolve if you start to get into leadership. And I'm not sure when the light bulb goes off or somebody just like telling you you should try coaching tennis says, you should be developing people. That's part of your job now to give back. I don't know when that moment happened for me, but it's something that I I enjoy as much as when I was on the court teaching somebody and seeing them just purely love getting better or hitting that perfect forehand.
Simon Gale:Seeing somebody move up in their career path and being able to say, I'm I've gone from a staff pro to a senior pro and making more money and I'm on a leadership track, that brings just as much satisfaction to me. That's not for everyone, but I love doing that. So in each role, think that's become more important to me. And when I came here to the campus four years ago now, it was clear to me that was one of my primary roles and responsibilities was to grow people, develop people, and that led to pathways and so on and trying to be able to develop plans for people just like I would for a player, for my staff. And so at each leadership role, I think it's become more serious for me to a point where if you're not better than than you were when you started with me, I failed you.
Simon Gale:If you don't leave here and go and become an influencer in the industry, I failed you. And so that's what I think about each day. That's very different than twenty years ago. So I love doing that and I would say everybody who works with me or for me, I'm always working on them. It's not always planned, sometimes it's indirectly, it just happens, or they come to you.
Simon Gale:But that's part of the beauty of being in it thirty years now is you have some knowledge to hopefully pass on them, it's worth listening to, or you have enough experience to say, I remember when I went through that. Just stick with it. You know, there's a good outcome at the end. They just need that. That's yes, you're growing, but I think that's as much just a friendly bit of advice as as much as a growth plan.
Simon Gale:So that's what I mean by it's indirect sometimes. It just happens, but I love it.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. It's it's interesting how that relationship takes place. I seem to have been led to many, like, 20 females, former college players who wanna break into the industry, and they're quite challenged. They want they like tennis. They wanna be involved, but they're challenged by what they perceive as male dominance, which really knowing that 80% of the pros are male is true.
Kim Bastable:They also lack clarity on, you know, how to earn money, and they don't feel they get training that they need to get thrown on the court in situations they're not prepared for. And I've just come to talk to them about all kinds of things like discuss having conversations to have with their boss or suggestions for writing emails. I've edited copy on things that they've written. They often need clarity on what to expect from their bosses, what to ask for, you know, how hard to push, what what's normal. You know, they don't know what's normal.
Kim Bastable:You know, many of these are are foreign players, and so The US club system is not something they're familiar with, and they just don't really understand. They don't know what the NTRP system was. The other day, I had someone ask me that, and I thought, what an honest good question. Who would she be able to ask that question to to admit that she didn't know the NTRP system? Because it's not something you wanna have to admit to.
Kim Bastable:So it's just I think I've seen a lot of value in just being someone that's a safe place to ask questions of to these young people. So I don't know if you you may be busy enough with your big staff, but I think all of us can find a few people that are not under us directly or or somehow young in the industry that we could help.
Simon Gale:Look, I think it's flattering when somebody asks you a question and you can help someone. I don't know anyone who says no. Like, it's if somebody asks me a question and I think I can help someone, if I can't drop everything and do it right now, I'll make sure I get to you by the end of the day because you're interested in my thoughts on something that's no different to me going and asking someone above me, you know, could you help mentor me a little on how I grow in as a leader or something like that. Most people are willing to give back. And I think it's built in in our industry.
Simon Gale:However, I don't think the leader can do it all. I think there's got to be leadership and mentorship or growth happening at a low level. I'll always challenge a, say, senior pro in in our team to say, look, this is not something I want you to set up in your calendar. I'm gonna pay you every week to do this, but I'm gonna tell the young pros to approach you and ask you to go to lunch sometime. And it might just be here on campus and you have an hour with them.
Simon Gale:And they're gonna buy you lunch, so you get a free lunch out of it. But they're going pick your brain a little bit about where they're at, what do you see in me, how can I get better, tell me about your pathway? And don't underestimate how much that's going to help them and something that they'll remember about you. And that's part of your job. And it's not something you have to get paid for and it doesn't have to be a formal program.
Simon Gale:But I'll tell the young ones for $15.20 dollars, you just got an hour's advice. Go find that somewhere for 15 or $20. And it's right in front of you, you don't have to go to a conference to get it. There's good people within your company or outside your company. Go and talk to somebody you respect and come to lunch.
Simon Gale:It's an easy gesture, and I think it's just something that we all want to do. Maybe we just don't know how to go about it.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. That's perfect advice. And I think it's so important to have those relationships that are just a little bit random and then maybe more more formal, like you say, the boss to the employee is a little bit more formal. And your brother Chris in in the episode with Chris Gail and Simon Gail, we actually talked about Chris mentioned industry rescue where his boss really he had a frustrating experience with a member and a boss really talked him down or a mentor. I I don't know if it was exactly a boss relationship, but it was a mentor relationship that said, here's how you should look at that situation and talked him out of actually leaving the industry.
Kim Bastable:But I I feel like, and maybe I'm wrong, there's a mentality sometimes that when people make decisions, we say, oh, that's your decision and I won't step on that. I won't try to talk you out of that. People have their own decisions and and so we don't mentor. What are your thoughts on that? Should we stop someone?
Kim Bastable:Should we provide opinions? Should we say something different than what they're originally thinking or let people think on their own?
Simon Gale:If you relate it back to teaching and you're you're on court with a kid and a kid's interest level's waning and they got beat on the weekend in a tournament and they're a bit down on themselves, you find a way to get them back, reengage them, have some fun with them again, and remind them of how much fun tennis is and we'll get back to it and you you have a win, it changes your whole mindset. So I know Chris, obviously, and know that example pretty well. And thank God he did talk him out of quitting. It was his boss, if I recall, Country Club, and I think, you know, we lose people because of that. It's a negative customer experience or a member, and we dwell on that, and we need a mentor or someone who's been through that cycle multiple times to say, hey, this happens.
Simon Gale:It doesn't matter what industry you're in, this is gonna happen. Or do you realize how good you are at this? 99% of the people who you teach love you and never complain, But don't focus on that 1%. Someone needs to tell you that because you're always gonna focus on the negative. You're always gonna pick up on that, and you're not gonna remember the positive.
Simon Gale:And it's not how you want things to happen because you're trying so hard to please people and and give them an experience, but you need that person who says, hey, I see you're getting frustrated. You need to stay in this industry because you're gonna be great. You're gonna be a leader. You're gonna be doing my job in five years' time. And sometimes that's all it takes, but you could have lost him and what a shame that would be because he's done a lot for the industry and has continued to do a lot.
Simon Gale:So thank goodness he stayed in it.
Kim Bastable:No. That's a great example. I like the way you align it to a tennis example, talking somebody down back into the game after a maybe a disappointing weekend. So that's a perfect example of sometimes we just need to look at things a little differently and and encourage. I think encouraging each other is is the way to go.
Simon Gale:Alright, Kim. I'm gonna ask the questions now a little bit or lead. So that really just kinda was was a summary of our first season. We move on to season two a little bit. And again, it's impossible to highlight all the speakers and all the great points they made, but one of the things that we picked up from Joe Curdo, who's the owner of Yonkers Tennis.
Simon Gale:He talked about ownership and growth and had a general theme of continuous growth. But one of the the great nuggets I took out was learning to delegate and empower others. He talked about hiring good people then letting them do what they're supposed to. But then what he talked about was it's his job as the leader to still check-in, verify and learn to trust these people and how difficult that was. So I think that's a real skill of being an effective leader.
Simon Gale:What are your thoughts on that comment?
Kim Bastable:Well, I 100% think it's a skill that is developed and one that I would say many tennis pros don't necessarily get because that's if they've played high level tennis, they've been very much in the you know, it's particularly singles. It's kind of a, you know, you're out there by all by yourself. You have to manage yourself. There's no delegating on the singles tennis court. So we don't learn the habit of giving other people opportunities to do things.
Kim Bastable:We learn that more the habits of control. So it does take an intentionality about it and making sure that we talk through with the person we want to delegate with the goals, the definitions of success, maybe some suggestions on how something should be done, and then maybe some scheduled discussions during the process. I'll, you know, speak with you in two weeks, I'll or speak with you once a week for a month or however to see how it's going, steps along the way. And then it yeah. It it takes letting someone else do something differently than you might have normally done it.
Kim Bastable:But if they're going to get to the ultimately a goal that you've both agreed upon, then it's letting it go. It's definitely a skill and it's not a skill everyone takes too easily.
Simon Gale:So setting those the road map, this is what we are, this is what we're not. I need you to stay within these boundaries, but I'm going to trust you to do it the way you do it. As long as we end up at the right result, I'm okay with that. That's that's not easy for somebody to do, especially if you have been in control. But I think in certain situations, you're forced to do it.
Simon Gale:I I can relate here just the sheer size of the operation. I couldn't manage everything. I had to trust more than I've ever trusted and that led to creating systems for check ins and how do we manage all the departments. There's no way I could have done it on my own at a small forecourt club. I can do a lot of it by myself and I don't have to empower as much because it's a small venue and there's two or three pros.
Simon Gale:But it's a real skill once you start to move up the ladder and if you want to be a successful director delegating and empowering. If not, you'll be exhausted and you will get burnt out very quickly.
Kim Bastable:Well, I'd argue it's a skill that you should even though you're in a small four court club, you might wanna practice the skill for the benefit of the people that you're working with Sure. Even though you don't necessarily need it. But also practice it for the fact that you wanna grow up into a eight court, 10 court, 20 court, maybe a 100 court facility, and you'll need to have some practice with that skill that maybe you could have some instances where you didn't didn't go as well as you wanted it to do. So it is definitely something everybody needs to work on at all levels.
Simon Gale:So moving on to mister Doug Cash, who always has plenty to say, but he's been in the industry a long time and seen it all and and we really, really value that. He talked about back in the eighties when tennis was really booming and getting going, the model was the reverse of what it is today from a programming point of view. It was 20% programming, 80% play. And what we see today is more 80% programming, 20% play. And as a result, you've seen this pro per court type mentality or trend at a tennis facility.
Simon Gale:However, when we talked with AJ Pan and Marcus Delplar, AJ talked about the pickleball model, Marcus talked obviously about Paddell model and all other racket sports. Marcus focused on guest experience and the customer journey and how just playing Paddell enables that to happen, but you need some programming to complement the play component. AJ talked about how maybe pickleball hasn't right and tennis needs to change a little bit and how it was very important to him to program pickleball in a way that's kept the play and fun component through the early parts of the pathway. There's an instructional piece as you get better, but it is learn the fundamentals, get into open play, get into socials, and maybe some tournaments if you wanna go down that road, but it was a play based pathway with an offshoot for instruction if you wanted it. Very different to the tennis model.
Simon Gale:What do you think about that in terms of, hey, this is they've got clean slates, these two sports in this country, to build it how it should be built. Has the tennis model got too pro dependent? What do you think?
Kim Bastable:Yeah. It's an interesting we thought think about why would it we have transitioned from 20% programming in the eighties to 80% programming now. And, you know, it's clearly, it's money. It's about, you know, it's about how can you make more money. So not sure that's the mentality that should it obviously drives every business.
Kim Bastable:But as we heard from Marcos and heard from AJ, there's this need to make sure we get the experience right. And I think when the focus is on experience, money will come. You will end up with happy people who return time and time again. So perhaps it is not about how much you make per court, per event, every time, but it's about the overall making sure that you're satisfying the desires of of the people playing and really is thinking in these two. It could be that pickleball is much like tennis in ten years, that it's grow it's new like it was in the seventies.
Kim Bastable:Tennis was in the seventies, and and then things changed. It was just a different environment, a different time, and it it could be that, you know, things are going to evolve. But I think in general, yes, you've gotta think about the numbers and and and keeping people employed and but if we can make sure the experience is the main emphasis, if we can make sure that we're listening to the players and giving the players an opportunity to express themselves, do they want more lessons? Do they want more supervised play experiences, evening leagues or, you know, evening socials or, you know, what's being asked of? And then offering ideas.
Kim Bastable:We are the smartest person in the room regarding these sports. Offering ideas to them, well, in pickleball we have done this, so try it in Padel, or Padel they do this, and try it in pickleball. Let's bring some ideas across the varying sports, provide some great environments.
Simon Gale:So should the first experience in tennis be a play experience or should you be going for a lesson? Should we see eight, twelve, 16 people on four courts with one pro showing them how to self rally, bump back and forth and go down that pathway, and mirror what you're seeing in some of these other sports, which is what tennis probably was back in the day. I think the professionalization of tennis business has led to where it is now, and it's not knocking the tennis business. It's not knocking tennis pros. The tennis industry is healthy.
Simon Gale:It's done a great job growing tennis. Tennis is is as healthy as it's ever been from a a participation point of view. But when I hear parents and kids tell me what they do at the campus or at my old clubs, Drives me crazy when I hear, I take tennis lessons at the campus. I take tennis lessons at x y z club. How about I play tennis?
Simon Gale:At what point do they play tennis? We have a lesson pathway with play. Should it be reversed? My kids don't say, I I take soccer lessons or I take basketball lessons or football lessons. I play soccer.
Simon Gale:I play football. I play baseball. So are we do we have to look at that and find ways to do both instead of you gotta take lessons first before you're good enough to play?
Kim Bastable:I couldn't agree that we should play before tennis anymore. I mean, that's play before lessons. It's just purely, yes, we we must do things like, you know, red ball, adult play, you know, get people out there enjoying themselves as quickly as possible at whatever level. You know, at one point, I remember in USPTA, there was a one day tournament emphasis. I don't know if we've been in the one day tournament world recently.
Kim Bastable:I mean, that's corn probably has a different name, same concept. But, yeah, the idea that we can do simplified competitions, time based competitions maybe instead of, you know, score based so that you every match just can be completed in forty five minutes, and then you can swap and everybody can play somebody different than the next forty five minutes, and then you can keep track of general games one or something. I mean, there's lots of ways to be innovative where they're out playing. It doesn't have to lessons are a part of that. Learning is always a part of that, but it's a play environment.
Simon Gale:And I think those products are out there, but I think the default is I'll do two private lessons rather than run a 60 person mixer with all the complaints about levels and so on. It's just easier to do it private. So again, we've said it a few times through this episode, it's an interesting moment in time and we're seeing other sports infiltrate into clubs and start to become part of regular programming and I think we'll learn from them, they'll learn from us and and we'll all adapt for what our customers need. But Marcus said it said it best when he talked about the guest experience and the importance of those intangibles that come with playing a sport versus just doing lessons. So I think it's a it's gonna be an interesting, again, decade or two as the the this unfolds.
Simon Gale:Well, that about wraps up our preseason highlights show from from our first two seasons. It's been great reflecting. I loved listening back to all the old episodes and taking out some of the key points. There were so many good ones. Thank you to all our presenters so far who've made this possible, and thank you to you, Kim.
Simon Gale:And we look forward to season three kicking off, continuing to make an impact on developing leaders in the Racquet's industry.
Kim Bastable:I think it is amazing as we listen back on on what the amount of information that has been provided. You know, there are bullet point after bullet point after bullet point in each of the episodes, so it was hard to capture all of the great thoughts. But it just reinforces that this is a complex job. This is a complex industry. It's an industry in time of change.
Kim Bastable:And for as many people as we can get working together, collaborating, looking at solutions in the industry, we're we're for that. That's what this is all about. Racquet Fuel is inspired to help make better leaders. We'll see you again next time on the next episode of Racquet Fuel.
Episode Narration:That's all for today, but we're not out of fuel. You can find more information and resources in our show notes and by visiting racketfuelpodcast.com. If you liked what you just heard, please subscribe and also leave a review, which helps other people join the mission to become stronger Racquet's leaders.
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