Leadership Culture feat. Allistair McCaw, Part 2
Welcome to Racquet Fuel, where we launch into great conversations and share powerful tools to help you become a stronger rackets leader. Your hosts are Kim Bastable, a former all American tennis player and now the director of tennis management at the University of Florida, and Simon Gale, the USTA National Campus Director of Racquet Sports. In this episode, we continue an inspiring discussion about how to be intentional and purposeful as we develop leadership skills. Our guest again is author and speaker Allistair McCaw, who travels the world working with athletes and leaders, helping them to achieve and to inspire. Now here's Kim and Simon.
Kim Bastable:We welcome back today, Allistair McCaw. We're very thankful he's here for a second episode. He's author of lead with purpose, make an impact, as well as many other books. We'll have a continued discussion today on leadership in the tennis and rack ets industry. Allistair believes excellence is an attitude, and he's worked with countless excellent teams in workplaces, including the NCAA, Duke University, Auburn University, LSU, SMU, and football clubs around the world as well as Formula one teams.
Kim Bastable:If you didn't hear his full background, be sure to tune in to our previous episode. It's an impressive list of accomplishments and, consultants consulting positions he's had, coaching as well in the in the world of tennis. So please go back and listen. And, Allistair, help listeners know where they can find more about you and find your books and your podcast.
Allistair McCaw:Oh, thanks so much, Simon and Kim. It's good to be back. Yeah. All the books are on on Amazon, so that's pretty simple and Audible as well. If you're not a big book reader, you can always listen to them.
Allistair McCaw:And then I'm a massive Twitter person as well. So, you know, Twitter, I love Twitter. I interact with a lot of people there as well. I share a lot there. And then Instagram at be champion minded.
Allistair McCaw:So those are probably the best places. As you mentioned, my podcast, the Allistair McCaw podcast, I've been very, very poor in the last six or eight months with with with having episodes. As you guys know, it's it's a lot of work. It's a lot of time. So I have a lot of respect for for all of you who put so much time and effort into the podcast.
Allistair McCaw:But, yeah, hopefully be able to to do a few more soon.
Kim Bastable:Well, that that's great. I know that our listeners will seek out all those avenues. In your book, Habits That Make a Champion, in particular, you say that becoming a high performer doesn't happen overnight or by accident. It takes years of dedication, hard work, and discipline. Champions prepare, plan, prepare, think, behave, and compete.
Kim Bastable:We know this for sport, but maybe we don't know it for leadership. Can you apply that to the high impact leader trying to create a successful environment?
Allistair McCaw:Yeah, so as we spoke about in the first episode that we did as well, I always believe that's important that you have as much experience as you can in many different areas, in many different positions, so to say. So I believe it's more important to have 20 experiences in one year than it is to have one experience in twenty years. And I have a lot of admiration for somebody that's been in one position for one company for twenty five, thirty years, that's called loyalty. But what we've seen in this generation today is that they want more variety, and this is something that we can get into with what what today's generation looks for in in in leadership and and team cultures, for example. But I think something that benefited me a lot at a young age was doing a lot of different jobs, being in a lot of different positions, seeing it from so many different angles.
Allistair McCaw:And that's what helped me, especially actually in the tennis industry of getting, you know, getting to work with world number ones and Grand Slam champions was I had, you know, I had a a background in nutrition. I had a background in sports performance. I also had a a my coaching license as well. So I had all these things that I wanted to make myself valuable to the player in so many different areas. And I didn't go to college.
Allistair McCaw:I didn't have a university degree or whatever. I just had what they called was work ethic and and getting and knowing what a player would need, for example. But that that that's one area. That's working with a player. But my my point there is getting as much experience as as you can in in many different positions, even volunteering for for example.
Allistair McCaw:Volunteering is one of the best things that you can do. I still volunteer today at a soup kitchen here in Florida for homeless people, which is my best day of the week, to be honest, of how I feel after I walk out of there. But, you know, creating a culture of excellence, Kim, is of course defining what that culture should look like. So you have to have a clarity on, you know, what does that culture look like? And, you know, how do you do that is use examples of, you know, places where it's working well or an academy or a country club where there's a good culture.
Allistair McCaw:We'll go spend some time and have a coffee with the director if you can. And, you know, today it's easier to contact and get in touch with people a lot a lot more than it was and and ask questions of what's working here, how did you do go about that, for example. I I believe that we're we don't ask enough questions. And then, of course, when you define the culture you want, it makes it easier to to find the right people because you want to have people that fit that culture. And within that culture, your standards, your values, your principles, your your mission, all these things.
Allistair McCaw:But once you've defined that, it's easier to get the right people in your team. You know, it's not about getting the best people, it's about getting the right people, for your team.
Kim Bastable:I I love the questions part because I do feel that certain people think once you reach a leadership perspective, you're supposed to know all the answers. And you're fearful of asking questions because you look like you don't know all the answers. So how does how did is that something that's just one of those you've just gotta realize it's okay that you you have to admit, you know, ask. I mean, seek, and and don't feel like it's all supposed to be inside you.
Allistair McCaw:Absolutely, I get it quite a lot as well, Kim. You know, I'll get my inbox on Twitter or Instagram questions from young coaches or teenagers, for example, asking how I got into what I do, for example. That's where it starts. Know, what's the worst thing that can happen? You don't get a reply back, but sometimes I might miss it because there's multiple messages there, for example.
Allistair McCaw:But there are people out there that are willing to reach out, good club direct, good club directors, good academy directors, great coaches, pros, etcetera. You just need to ask. That's how you grow quicker. That's how you develop quicker is you you you know, one of the best qualities you can have is is not having a fear of rejection. You know, there could be doors closed, keep knocking on other doors.
Allistair McCaw:You know, it can happen. So what if you got turned down nine times for that that position that you wanted? Maybe the tenth time it might happen. We all know that that colonel Sanders famous KFC recipe was turned down more than 700 times. You know that JK Rowling was turned down by by 28 publishing companies.
Allistair McCaw:Walt Disney was told he wasn't creative enough. There's so many examples of of you know, like I said, knock doors, ask questions. Social media has made it easier than ever to get in touch with these great leaders and club directors for example. Yeah.
Simon Gale:It's a great great point, Allistair and something that we try and
Simon Gale:encourage within our team is we have a very diverse team and we cover all ranges from twenties through sixties in terms of generational differences and there's a tremendous amount of leadership experience in most facilities that I always encourage the younger pros to say, can I take you out for lunch or breakfast? It's a cheap way to get a wealth of information from people who who are more than willing generally to to pay it forward. It's kind of part of our industry's culture is that there is a pay it forward mentality for the most part. So it ties in with my next question which is this concept of kind of leading at every level that you talk about and as you move through your career path, there's opportunities to learn to lead whether you have a title or not, there's opportunities. So when you look at the tennis coach's pathway or the pathway to leadership, we tend to have a very simple career path which is I'm a staff pro or entry level pro, full time teaching professional, the next step is perhaps head professional and then I become a director.
Simon Gale:I could be stuck in that entry level or teaching professional role for ten, fifteen years before I reach that next level depending on on my opportunities and my growth. So with that limited promotional opportunity, talk a little bit about how as you evolve, you can learn to lead along the way before you get to that leadership title.
Allistair McCaw:Yeah. You know, we're all leaders as you just mentioned there because the first person we have to lead is ourself. And we can't lead others if we don't lead ourselves effectively. Now, does that mean it's perfect all the time? Absolutely not.
Allistair McCaw:You know, as I mentioned in our first part, we make mistakes every day and that's fine as long as we're learning from those mistakes. But I think something that I try to pass on to the younger generation, those younger coaches, those younger pros that want to climb the ladder so to say, is you're cheating the process if you're not going through the the levels and the stages and spending years in that. Know, jumping from trying to leapfrog, you know, you're cheating yourself in terms of all those experiences and what you're gonna learn along the way, for example. You know, especially with today's generation, know, they there's studies that show that they just wanna go from, you know, from college to being the the the vice the vice president of a company or a CEO, and those are great ambitions. And if you want to be a a club director, that's a fantastic ambition.
Allistair McCaw:But, know, don't cheat the process by trying to skip the stages that are important to learn along the way of being an assistant pro and then being a pro and then being, you know, whatever it may be, part time, full time, those stages for example. Because that's where you learn the most along the way. Because if you're leapfrogging or jumping ahead, you're missing out on all those things that are important to make you a better leader, for example. So, again, there's so many areas that that we can learn to be better leaders. There's examples of good leaders that we can look at.
Allistair McCaw:Like we just spoke about club directors or academy directors, for example. But I think just that learning process in those years of, so to say, and I know some of you who are listening to this just on audio, I put my hands up and say air quotes of not cheating the process. So that's the the best way I like to put it.
Simon Gale:Yeah. I think then that the role of our current leadership is to facilitate putting them in opportunities to grow even if it's as director instead of leading four courts on my own all the time because I'm the director. How do I empower my younger pros to have opportunities to lead those four courts and develop leadership roles and demonstration skills and so on that are critical to being a successful leader at least on the court point of view. So I think it's that pay it forward mentality that continues need to be part of your leadership philosophy. So it kind of leads into my next question which is, Kim has done quite a bit of research on this and it's a well known fact in the teaching profession that about forty percent of our certified pros are over the age of 60.
Simon Gale:And over the next ten years or so, just through retirement or aging out of teaching, we're going to lose a lot of people and we're going have a big void to fill. And Kim talks to this that we might lose up to a thousand directors and head pros over those ten years. That's a massive void to fill and and are we equipped with the the pipeline being fed to to to fill these vacated roles? And one of the things we talk about is that the kind of gen y and gen z group which you referred to a little bit today, they're going to be a big part of that leadership moving forward. And so skipping stages and so on might be something that happens naturally because these leadership roles need to be filled.
Simon Gale:Maybe that's a great thing for the industry, it's an injection of youth and new ideas and so on but what are your thoughts on that generation filling this void maybe in some respects a little bit early because some of them might not be quite ready or maybe they are, I don't know.
Allistair McCaw:Yeah. We've seen how leadership has changed over the years, you know, from autocratic type of leadership now to more of a transformational leadership or democratic if if you wanna call it. But what excites me about this generation more is that they're willing to work in a team environment easier than the generations before. So there is gonna be more collaboration, I believe. When there's when there's a generation that's willing to work together, there's gonna be a better chemistry.
Allistair McCaw:So there's so many positives we can take away moving forward. However, we it is our responsibility of of experienced leaders, if we wanna call it that, of those in their forties, fifties, sixties, of passing on our knowledge and our experience and our tools. And, you know, I I like to to share, which I didn't always, my failures of where I've gone wrong in in in my my career as well. And, again, that's that's where people connect with you the most is with your imperfections, not your not your perfections. So it it is an exciting time.
Allistair McCaw:And and, you know, regardless of what age you are, you know, evolving is an attitude. It's a mindset in terms of staying relevant. You know, I always say to coaches regardless of what age you you are, you should know what TikTok is and what what music teenagers are listening to and so on and so forth if you're working with them to stay relevant. Because as we know, 80% of coaching is actually the personal connection. It's not it's not the it's not the actual activity you're doing.
Allistair McCaw:It's the personal connection. You know, our students come back back to see us, not just to learn a game. They come to see us. I always like to say they come to see you for your energy more than your exercises. Yeah, answering your question, Simon, this this is an exciting generation.
Allistair McCaw:However, the older generation or more experienced generation, we need to stay relevant. We need to keep evolving by understanding them better. That's again why, you know, I believe the two most important areas to invest in are your emotional intelligence and the generational codes. Because that is a key area is to understand the generation and the person that's in front of you. And that's just one more thing is that if you do want to climb the ladder or someone says, how did you get to to be a club director or lead pro, whatever it may be?
Allistair McCaw:My simple answer is I took care of the people that were in front of me to the best of my ability. When you do that, that's the process. The rest take care of itself Is take care of the client, the customer, the player in front of you right now to the best of your ability, your staff member for example. That's how you move ahead.
Simon Gale:Yeah. And I would just respond to that with, I look at the young pros that I work with now and have in the past and I agree it's a tremendously exciting time of transition that's gonna happen. And I think similar to when you were coaching full time, when a student came back to you ten, fifteen years later which just means you were getting older as a coach. It was so gratifying for them to to hear them say, I I did this or I still love playing tennis. I love when you used to do this drill or taught me this.
Simon Gale:Well as a leader, seeing these young pros evolve and then end up in these leadership roles, if that doesn't get you going as a leader and satisfy you and say, wow, I've really had an impact on someone, then maybe you shouldn't be in a leadership role because that's just so satisfying to see them evolve and become that next leader. So yeah, I really agree with what you said, thank you.
Kim Bastable:You know, I love that because as Alistair's talking and we're talking about the young people and what they can bring, their the the fact that they love to work in teams and and maybe some energy and creativity, I'm actually saying to myself, maybe Racquet's is gonna be in a really great place that we have the older generation aging out into some love level of a a lot a lot of them leaving, you know, a thousand to 1,500 maybe in the next ten years. And if we can get the young energy inside our industry, ahead of the game. So I don't know if that's a bad thing that if we can mentor them well and give them what they need to really serve thrive, there's gonna be a lot of openings, so that may make us appealing as an industry. Does that sound like crazy logic, or does that make sense?
Allistair McCaw:Absolutely. And this is why it's so important to to keep evolving, to keep learning, to keep growing, to keep adapting, to stay curious regardless of what age you are, and to understand that this generation or these generations have different needs to what we had in the workplace. Again, what was important for us was loyalty. How long have you been at a certain place that was seen as as as trust and loyalty as where this generation today are wanting new experiences even after three years, four years, for example. We need to understand of how we can best facilitate them, what they look for in in in an environment.
Allistair McCaw:I always say that, you know, it's important more to you know, communication is 80% listening. And this is something I I I believe we fail as coaches and leaders and managers as we don't listen enough as into what they want. Now, you know, there's this thing that we believe this generation is entitled and they're lazy and so on and so forth, which is absolutely not true. I I believe the biggest issue is we need to understand them better, what they want from the work environment, what's important for them in the work environment, and we need to facilitate that to the best of our ability.
Kim Bastable:Very good. So that's what I think we need to do as leaders and to make sure that we can hire well. And one of the tricky things, I guess, from that would be the idea of growth mindset. It's a term we've talked about. It's kinda getting catchy, and people talk about what what is it, and how do you find it in the people that you're looking for?
Kim Bastable:Because I know it's valuable. So why don't you give your take on growth mindset?
Allistair McCaw:Yeah, of course this is something that was brought to the fore by Doctor. Carol Dweck from Stanford. And it's been a, I don't like to call it a buzzword for the last few years. But for me it's two simple things. It's being more open minded and it's being curious.
Allistair McCaw:And those two things with being open minded is the ability to listen better, to be coachable, to I talk about curiosity is, is there a better way of doing this? And this is something I've seen in great cultures is how can we do this better? That's the question that they ask. So they always keep evolving and it's you know, I'm sure you've seen that that picture that that goes around social media sometimes is, you know, be wary of a culture where they say that's the way things have always been done here. If you're still stuck on that mindset or that philosophy, then you're not gonna be progressing and you're not gonna attract good young people and good young coaches to your to your academy or your facility, for example, if you're still stuck on that mindset of, well, this is the way we've always done things here.
Allistair McCaw:But, yeah, growth minded, again, it's a subject that we could talk for hours on, but for me, about being open minded. It's about changing your relationship with failure in terms of failing is not the opposite of success, it's a part of success is that anyone who's who's achieved great things in athletics, in corporate, whatever has gone through multiple failures. So the sooner you can change your relationship with failure and see it in a good way, of course, we don't like to fail. Of course, it's it's uncomfortable. It's embarrassing sometimes, whatever, but that's how we learn.
Allistair McCaw:So for me, growth minded would would go around those those few things.
Kim Bastable:That's an excellent I love that. I don't know that I'd heard that before either, but failure is not the opposite of success, it's a part of success. That's a great takeaway. Not not my quote, but I I read it somewhere and thought, that that really does make sense.
Simon Gale:So I wanted to talk about people a little bit more, Allistair and finding the right people. So as a leader, you're quite often involved in the hiring process, if not a 100% involved in the hiring process and it's a great responsibility. We all know one wrong hire can damage a culture very quickly. So the challenge of surrounding yourself with people who will invest in your values or believe in them and your beliefs and help cultivate the culture you're striving for is critical. So what are some of the mistakes leaders make around this concept?
Allistair McCaw:Rushing the process too quickly and and I get it because you know, we have we have, you know, clients, we have members who who need their lessons and now we're overworking some of the coaches because we don't have enough staff, for example. But the worst mistake you can make is is rushing a decision on who you're going to who you're going to recruit or employ. So, you know, what are some of the things that we can help that? And this is where I get back to saying that it's better to have, you know, a resume or background of experiences, positive experiences, for example. I always say to to people, no matter what's happened, and it's not always the easiest thing, but always leave somewhere on a good way even if there was a disagreement or you know, you just didn't align with them, for example, you can always leave in a good manner because that's gonna affect you moving on.
Allistair McCaw:As we know, it can be a small industry that we get to know other coaches and we get to know other other facilities, for example. So it can become a small world. So yeah. So I would say the biggest mistake is rushing the process because I get I get it. We're understaffed.
Allistair McCaw:We we need to fill positions. We're overworking some of the coaches and the overtime, for example. But that would be that would be one. What else? Gosh.
Allistair McCaw:Mine has gone a little bit blank there.
Simon Gale:I I agree a 100%. I think that's our biggest error is because we're in the customer service industry, when we're short staffed, it puts a strain on everybody and and we need to fill the position. And if we make a hasty decision, it's much harder to let go of someone than it is to hire someone. So, you know, I think it's it's critical that you don't rush the process. And if we have to explain to our staff, hey, we've got a few months where we're all gonna work a little extra, but I promise it'll be worth it.
Allistair McCaw:I think that's why sorry sorry to jump in there, Simon. So my thought process came back to me there. That's what that's what getting older does to you.
Simon Gale:Forget what you're actually doing.
Allistair McCaw:Is I always encourage leaders, you know, I work with college colleges as well, college coaches to keep a a backup list of possible people that you would recruit or hire in the future. So you're already you're scouting all the time of who would be good people to be on your team in the future. And even when somebody leaves, would you might have a short list of possible people that that would be would be great candidates for that position. And, you know, you might have seven or eight, and there might be one or two of those that are available that are looking for a a change of scenery, which would be good good hires. So, you know, plan ahead.
Allistair McCaw:Have a short list of people that would be good fits for you. I always say to coaches and colleges, you know, when you play other schools, scout other scout other assistant coaches and and and people that could be possibly good fits in the future. And, you know, you never know. If if you ask them, they might be might be willing to come across.
Kim Bastable:I think that's good advice, and I think that the same thing goes with I feel like we have the pipeline of the people that are going to be in our industry in our classes on our courts. They're they're taking lessons today, and you capture that 16, 17 year old sharp one, he might be the person that in a few years will be, you know, working for you and then be in your chair in ten years. 100%. That's the pipeline, yeah, that that you're mentioning as well. Just keep your keep it keep your eyes and ears open.
Kim Bastable:So how do we summarize this? How do we knock this down? Are there, kind of maybe three takeaways if I said as I'm teaching my directors of Racquet Sports students at UF what they need to know, to be good leaders as we've mentioned. Being a good coach is is great. That's a nice skill, but that's not what we're trying for and needing in this realm.
Kim Bastable:So what would you say are your top three important aspects that a budding leader needs to work toward learning?
Allistair McCaw:Yeah, I like to call it about getting into the lab, LAB. So the first one is listening, which we've touched on as well as be a great listener. A great communicator is a better listener. I like to call it the and this was in my first book, seven keys to being a great coach, an eighty twenty communicator. And it's listening 80% of the time and talking 20% of the time.
Allistair McCaw:And just as a side note, a survey I did back in 2018 with a 118 college students, athletes, I asked them what is your number one pet peeve in a coach? And number one was a coach that talks too much. So, you know, we we know that impactful coaches and leaders aren't always the most vocal. And this is something about leadership as well is that, you know, you know, you might be an introvert. You might be a quiet person.
Allistair McCaw:You can still be a great leader because leadership is in essence example. So that's the first one. So listening, number one. Number two is asking questions. For example, how are they as as a person, which is one of the most important question is the care aspect.
Allistair McCaw:How are they finding how are they finding their their job? What can you do better as as a leader? What what can we make better in in our club, for example? So ask questions because that's how you create buy in, and that's how you add value is that you include them. And that's something about this generation as well is that they want to be included in the decision making instead of an old old fashioned do as I say, I'm the leader, I'm the manager.
Allistair McCaw:That's not gonna work these days. So number one, listen. Number two, ask questions. And number three, the b stands for build relationships. You know, relationships with your team, get to know them as people.
Allistair McCaw:It's always good to have maybe, as we like to we call it in South Africa, a brai or a barbecue with some of your team team members, whatever it may be, but build that connection with with the people. I always say that people first. So those would be the three things that I would I would say would be important.
Kim Bastable:Very good. L a b, listen, ask, build.
Simon Gale:Allistair, look, as you said earlier, we could talk about this for hours on end, but you've got something important to get to this afternoon, I'm sure. So we really appreciate your time. It's been a pleasure listening and diving into leadership. It's my favorite topic to discuss so we really value you taking the time to talk with us today.
Allistair McCaw:Thank you so much. Again, it's been an honor and pleasure to be on the podcast with you both. I'm a big fan of it, so, please keep up the great work.
Kim Bastable:Thank you. What a great discussion it's been. We thank Allistair for your guidance, your expertise to help the Racquet's industry build leaders who develop intentionality through tools such as you'll find in his books. I encourage you to pick up probably the most relevant of his books, but they're all exceptional, Lead with Purpose, make an impact subtitled 44 lessons in effective coaching and leadership. Please provide comments to us on our web page and get in touch with us on LinkedIn or Allistair, maybe on Twitter.
Kim Bastable:We'd love to hear your feedback, your thoughts on this topic, and any others you'd like us to discuss on Racquet Fuel. We'll see you next time.
Episode Narration:That's all for today, but we're not out of fuel. You can find more information and resources in our show notes and by visiting racketfuelpodcast.com. If you like what you just heard, please subscribe. And also, leave a review, which helps other people join the mission to become stronger Racquet's leaders.
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