Leadership Culture feat. Allistair McCaw, Part 1
Welcome to Racquet Fuel, where we launch into great conversations and share powerful tools to help you become a stronger Racquet's leader. Your hosts are Kim Bastable, a former all American tennis player and now the director of tennis management at the University of Florida, and Simon Gale, the USTA National Campus Director of Racquet Sports. In this episode, we'll fuel up on leadership and mindset coaching with author and speaker, Allistair McCaw. He'll share the tools and knowledge leaders need to know to be purposeful in their efforts to make a real impact. Now here's Kim and Simon.
Kim Bastable:Welcome to Racquet Fuel. I'm Kim Bastable. The next two episodes of Racquet Fuel will be dedicated to leadership, and we have a top thought leader with us to do that. It's Allistair McCaw, and he has worked with Olympic gold medalists, grand slam champions, fortune 500 companies, formula one teams, and he has spoken and consulted in more than 50 countries. Add to that multiple best selling books.
Kim Bastable:It's a wealth of knowledge that we in the Racquet's industry need. Welcome, Allistair. Simon and I are very excited to have you.
Allistair McCaw:Simon Kim, it's an honor to be on the podcast. Thanks so much for having me.
Simon Gale:Alistair, I guess the first question I actually have after listening to the opening is what are the countries that you haven't spoken in yet?
Allistair McCaw:You know, I haven't done Asia much to be honest. Japan is definitely one of the places that I'd love to go to that I haven't been to. Actually saying that I've spoken in Thailand, so Asia would be. Been super lucky to speak in, you know, Australia, of course, at the Australian Open Coaches Conference and and, of course, all over Europe, South Africa, America, of course. But I would say Japan and let's go with maybe Argentina or somewhere in South America.
Allistair McCaw:I haven't I have actually haven't been I haven't done South America much.
Simon Gale:This might be the hardest question you've had for the whole podcast. I just kicked off with it. But anyway, here's what I wanted to touch on to start with is, firstly, it's a it's great to have you on this interview podcast with us. The message and the consistency of the message throughout all your your books, you know, centered around vision and purpose, trust, culture are things that really resonate with me personally in the role I'm in and I think a lot of the people listening today who are directors or managers of facilities are always working on how to bring our teams together and rally around those type of core reasons for why we do what we do. So you know, the theme of our podcast being Developing Leaders, your message and what we are all about is hopefully gonna be something that really resonates with the audience today.
Simon Gale:So thanks for being here and maybe you could kick off by summarizing a little bit about your your series of books now that you have and and what inspired you to write them.
Allistair McCaw:Yeah. Well, my first book was in 2016, Seven Keys to Being a Great Coach. It was always something I wanted to do towards the end of, I'd say more my coaching career and I am still coaching today and as well as speaking and writing books. I would say it's a timeline of my career or my evolution of my career, so to say, is that first book being Seven Keys to Being a Great Coach, which I still speak on today, I'm still very, very passionate about it as I was the very first time I spoke about it in 2016. I then wrote Champion Minded, which is, you know, became a a best seller very, very quickly together with Jenny Robb.
Allistair McCaw:That was that was an exciting book to do, which is still one of the best sellers after after six, seven years now. It appeals to a lot of athletes, students. It it does very well in in the college setting as well, but it's it's applicable to any anybody in sports and in life. My third book, gosh, I'm having to think back now, was, becoming a great team player, which as you can start to see the pattern here of coaching mindset now into culture, which are are three three of my passions of, you know, what makes a great team. And and again, this was a book that was, I I take pride in my books being simply written, you know, short chapters, you know, two to three pages, quick message around about 50 chapters per, you know, in the book.
Allistair McCaw:Then I wrote, I think the next book was, developing a winning attitude and mindset, which I think the title says it all. Just a lot of life stories there as well. And I think Simon and Kim, that was the first book that I really became more vulnerable because I would say that throughout working on myself and self awareness and self development that I thought, you know, I'm only putting the good stuff out there. This is what everything looks like when when, you know, on on Instagram, for example, all looks amazing. Everything works perfectly.
Allistair McCaw:And then we ask ourselves, well, what's wrong with with me or what's wrong with our team and and and why am I not a good leader and coach and so on and so forth. I was more vulnerable in that book and it got really an incredible response from people saying, you know, I relate with that. And I think this is something I've learned is that people relate with your imperfections more than your perfections. You know, you can say like, oh, look, amazing. This person has done all these things.
Allistair McCaw:And you know, every time I hear myself being introduced like I did at the beginning, I don't feel what's the word? I almost feel impostor syndrome is because I have so many so many other things that I that have failed that haven't gone well, for example, and I still do today. And so I put that into that book. And then my next one was, Lead with Purpose, Make an Impact. So going more into the leadership realm and, just, you know, an accumulation of years of spending time with with leaders, top teams, coaches, managers, also sharing what doesn't work in cultures and and leadership and so on and so forth.
Allistair McCaw:And in my final book, the latest one is Habits That Make a Champion, which is I would say a very I would say would be the sister book to Champion Minded where, you know, it's just about more about developing the habit. Okay. So this is so Champion Minded is basically saying this is what you need to do and the habits that make a champion teach you on what you need to do to, you know, what are the tools that I need to do to develop these habits. So yeah, those the books.
Simon Gale:It's fascinating too because as I talk to more people as we get older and you become more curious as to how did you get to where you got to in your career and how did that evolve? It kind of leads into the next question because when I talk to people more and more, I get a sense that sometimes some of the best things they achieve or some of the things they're able to pull off are not necessarily planned out well in advance. Like, you didn't have five or six books planned in advance when you wrote your first one and as as you evolved as a person and as a leader and you you you grow, it inspires you to go in this direction and sometimes that direction is different to what you maybe had as an intention. So I hear that more and more and it's fascinating to me. Along those lines with your background that you just kind of touched on a little, Talk to me a little bit about how you started and your evolution to where where you are today impacting so many people.
Allistair McCaw:Quick history, born in Belfast, Northern Ireland, moved to South Africa when I was five with with my parents. This was back in '80, early eighties. So it was an apartheid South Africa. We also we obviously had, sanctions during that time as well. So it was a very interesting time.
Allistair McCaw:I was still very young, but sport was a massive part of our lives in South Africa because we were segregated, because we couldn't play overseas and vice versa. You guys couldn't come to us. So there were sanctions imposed. So it was a very much a sporting culture, military as well. We had a very similar system to the Israeli system of that you leave school and then you do a compulsory two years of of army service, military service.
Allistair McCaw:So it was a very similar system. So there was high discipline already in the schools. There was a very high discipline as well. I remember the the amount of rules that we had in terms of, you know, your your school uniform, how shiny your shoes needed to be. And this was a public school, this was not a military school or a private school for example.
Allistair McCaw:So from a very young age, high discipline, sporting environment, I remember playing seven, eight sports at school and that's how I developed my love and passion for sports also for you know, I I believed it was important to play not only an individual sport because tennis was my first love, but team sports as well. And this is something I encourage parents and coaches as well is that, you know, we can talk about early specialization. That's another another podcast. The importance of developing a young athlete in terms of individual responsibility, accountability like tennis does, and and and being in a team sport, how you work in a team environment for for example, once you go leave school and go into the corporate world. So I wanted to be a professional tennis player.
Allistair McCaw:Cut a long story short, we couldn't afford it. There wasn't we didn't have enough money for the coaches and the funding and so on and so forth. Of course, this is, eighties, early nineties in South Africa. It got to a good level. You know, played, top 10 juniors with Neville Godwin and, Robbie Koenig was just in front of us and, you know, Wayne Wayne was obviously four years ahead of us.
Allistair McCaw:So there was a really strong South African contingent of of players there as well. But anyway, I took up, running, became the South African, five kilometer champion. From there, took up duathlon, competed in five world championships in the sport of duathlon, finished second and one. So I had a good sporting career. However, it was a sport that, you don't earn a lot of money, so I had to be working at the same time.
Allistair McCaw:I worked in gyms. I was a personal trainer. I was actually a manager of a a club with 11,000 members at the age of 21. So already leadership was was there. Some people say I'm more I was more mature at 21 than I am now, and I tend to, probably tend to agree with them.
Allistair McCaw:I was more serious in my twenties than I am now, which is something I had to work on. But there while being in a professional sports career, I was working at the same time as well, sometimes two to three jobs a day. I was waiting tables at night. I was working in the gym during the day, and I got to work with a lot of great athletes the time, the connections that I would have. And that's where it all started.
Allistair McCaw:Eventually, worked for the Dutch Tennis Federation. Sven Gunefelt, of of course, who's a fantastic coach. He's worked with Maria and Tommy Haas and more recently Bianca Andrescu. He offered me a chance. This was back in 2004, I think it was.
Allistair McCaw:Do I wanna work with, Natalie Deschie, the the French player? I took the opportunity and that was my start on the professional tennis tour. After that, got to work with Dinaris Afinas, Fvetlana Kuznetseva, Xavier Melise, and Kevin Anderson for four years between 2014 and 2018. But during all this time, I was, again, working on my next step, my next career of team culture leadership, which that's where I am today. So that was just a fast track of of of how I've evolved.
Simon Gale:It's not a very interesting life, you said, Kim, is it?
Kim Bastable:No. That's impressive. That's really good. I appreciate you doing that. That's a great backstory.
Kim Bastable:I love the fact that you talk about growth and evolution and that that, you know, I don't know if you saw yourself here. Like Simon said twenty five years ago, that's just life, we all need as young people need to know that. And in my role as the director of this UF director of Racquet Sports program, you know, I work with people who wanna be budding leaders, whether they're for straight in their master's program in their early twenties or maybe they start our programs a little bit later. But one of the things I do start with them on is to make
Allistair McCaw:sure that they have it clear why they want to do this education, why they wanna be in the role of leadership. And I think you speak to that in your books. It's like, why is it so important for people to have their mission, vision and values clear? That's a great question, Kim. And this is something that I write about in my latest book, Habits That Make a Champion.
Allistair McCaw:And before I work with anybody, be it a leader, in a mentorship, you know, I ask them these three simple questions and this is where it relates to your question is, what is it you want? So first of all, you need to know what you want. And this can apply to any anyone setting a goal, a career, a vision, etcetera, etcetera, is what do you want? And that can be a loaded question in terms of, you know, of course, financial security, love of the job, working with a with a team, working remote, whatever it may be. So you've got to know what you want, number one.
Allistair McCaw:And listen, before we go any further, you don't have to have all the answers and and and be and you know, especially when you're young, getting out of college, you know, I always say experiment as much as possible and and try as many things as possible. But the first one is what is you want? Okay, try be as clear as possible as you can on that. The second one is what do you need in order to achieve this? So resources, location, what tools do you need?
Allistair McCaw:What people do you need, etc. Because if there's a one bit of advice I could give the younger generation is put yourself in the right environment with the right people, and and that will accelerate your career. Yes. It's also important to experience poor cultures, poor poor work environments. And that's why again, I get back to saying why it's important to have a variety of experiences to see what a good culture is, what a poor culture is.
Allistair McCaw:It's just like romantic relationships is, you know, you experience poor relationships, good relationships, and you get an idea of what, you know, what works. And then the third question is, why does this matter so much to you? Because, you know, motivation is fleeting. Some days, you know, I love what I do and I'm sure you both love what you do as well. It shows, But not every day do you wake up feeling energized, excited, let's go, you know, no matter how much you love it.
Allistair McCaw:And and and I'm the same, you know, some some mornings I'll wake up and I'm not as motivated as I was last week or whatever. But my greater purpose and reason why I do this, of course, is to impact as many people as possible, to help them find their purpose as well. That's what drives me. So, you know, what is it you want? What do you need in order to achieve this?
Allistair McCaw:And number three, why is this so important to you? If you can have some type of clarity on those three questions, you've got a great head start.
Simon Gale:Well along those lines, Alistair, you know, for example at the at the campus, we're striving to be a center of excellence. And I think with what this place is, that's a minimum standard for me is and how do we get there. So what does that mean to you when you hear that type of phrase, a center of excellence and what does that look like from say a team makeup or delivery point of view?
Allistair McCaw:When I read a tweet or I read a question or something, I always highlight keywords. And of course the keyword that came out for me in this one is excellence. You know, for me it's important that you define what excellence is for you. Because excellence for you can be something different for for somebody else. And I love the fact that you use the word excellence over success.
Allistair McCaw:Because for me, success is the end product, a result and outcome, which is uncontrollable. You know, you can work super hard towards a goal and just come short. Are you now a failure? Did you, you know? So for me, excellence is about the everyday process.
Allistair McCaw:So to answer your question, it's what happens there every day because culture is an everyday thing, not just a sometimes thing. Know, our behaviors change, our moods change, and these are all things that are dynamic that we need to be on top of, which is not easy. Hence why there is not a lot of centers of excellence or if you want to put it high performance environments. So you know, for me excellence is about the everyday process. Excellence to me is an environment where there's growth.
Allistair McCaw:And I know you guys there out there you're all about growth, you're all about developing people and developing yourselves because looking at cultures of excellence, that is one of and this is a presentation I just gave recently in The UK, is one of the key factors is continuous learning and growth. That is part of a center of excellence or a culture of excellence as you put it Simon. So again, we could talk forever or at least another hour on this particular question, But I say it's about the process, the everyday process. Success for me is an end product, but you can have an incredible process and just fall short. That doesn't mean that you weren't a success at the end.
Kim Bastable:I love that. I think that's great. Athlete, I think back and I wonder the same thing with you. Did you have a process mindset as an athlete? And if you're like me, you probably had one more as a later years than you did in your earlier years because that's excellence in the processes versus define yourself by success.
Kim Bastable:So that's I I'd just be curious, athletically, was that an evolution for you?
Allistair McCaw:Yeah. So I'll give you an example. So my goal was to be the world champion, in duathlon in my age group. And at that stage, it was the 25 29 age group. Worked incredibly hard for three years, you know, positioned myself in Europe, in in a training facility, lived like a monk, body fat was 34%.
Allistair McCaw:I mean,
Simon Gale:just just
Allistair McCaw:put everything into it that I could. Every every last cent and every last bit of energy I could. The world championships that year were in Alpharetta in Georgia and, it's kind of long story short, I finished second. So I fell short of being world champion by forty five seconds. The guy who beat me was a a two eleven marathoner.
Allistair McCaw:So that's what I was up against. You know, he took off from the last run and I could see him at the end at the finish line in front of me. Heartbreaking. At first, I felt a failure. It it was a it was a strange feeling, but then once I started to process it and I think this is, you know, failure teaches you more than success is, was I a failure?
Allistair McCaw:After everything that I'd given and I couldn't have given any more, that's where this concept of excellence and success comes along for me because I've experienced failure but but had excellence on the way to, you know, that final race or that final day or reaching the Wimbledon final, which of course I never never did or only dreamed of. Is that a failure that you've become a Wimbledon finalist, you know? So I would say I I go back to that experience, Kim.
Kim Bastable:What I hear you saying is that's an evolution of the way you think, an evolution of your mindset. Would that be the way you describe it? You first thought it was failure and you second framed it differently.
Allistair McCaw:Kim, it took me a while to get over it. The pain of defeat was was because it was my last race. It was gonna be my last race in my career. You know, I was 32. You can't afford to be on the road all the time making no money in a in a sport, you know.
Allistair McCaw:It's almost like being, I hate to use the word journeyman, but it's being ranked where you're just you're very good at what you do, but you're not making money. You're just putting in. And I'm sure a lot of coaches who were ex players or players listening to this right now can relate that, you know, the the four hundredth, five hundredth ranked tennis player in the world is incredible. I mean, that level is just insane. We we you know, we see how how much college tennis has improved at that level.
Allistair McCaw:That's where we're at at the moment of how competitive it is, but it took me a while to get over it, Kim. It took me a long a long time to process it of of about who my identity as well was a failure because I didn't reach that goal and I put everything into it. So yeah, it eventually came around.
Simon Gale:As you commented earlier, I think one of the questions I would ask is did you process that all on your own or did you have a team around you that helped you see that and when you relate that to being a leader, you know, the people and this is, we'll talk to this later, but the people you surround yourself with are critical for keeping perspective and measuring that excellence and helping you realize that hey, we are doing some great things and we're moving in the right direction but maybe we're not there yet. That's all part of that evolution to becoming an effective leader too, would say. Absolutely.
Allistair McCaw:Back then if I think about it, I mean we're going back twenty years now because this was I think 2001, 2002. But yes, having the right people around you, people that are able to give you perspective. You know, this is another thing about mentors as well as, you know, you want to have a mentor that's not been there before, not necessarily did the exact activity you maybe did, but has experienced failure, has experienced these things in life that that can help you. And that's that's an invaluable. And I encourage anybody, regardless where you are in life, what age you are, is to have a mentor, to have that person or those people to be able to to guide you, to give you the truth, to to be the example as well.
Allistair McCaw:You know, this is something I strive to be as well. I always believe I have these three things in life is that first you get paid for what you do, then you get paid for what you know, and then you get paid for who you grow. And for me, has been something in my twenties, thirties, and forties is that 20, I was doing, putting in all the work. Thirties, I I got to know a little bit more. Now I've got my ten thousand hours or my ten years, so to say.
Allistair McCaw:And then the third thing is, you know, then you get paid for for who you grow, mentoring others, impacting others through through books or or through a leadership position for for example. So, yeah, it's it's key, know. Today, we live in an age where back then, it was not as easy as it is now to get on a call like this to be on Zoom or or, you know, social media wasn't as it is today. It's so easy to get great mentorship today. We just need to follow great people on on on you know, Twitter for example or wherever.
Allistair McCaw:There's so much out there now for for this generation and our generation to learn from.
Simon Gale:Definitely, definitely. So as we talk more about leadership, specifically in relation to people either being born leaders or learning to be a leader, you've said in some of your writings that it's usually a little bit of both. But is there a certain leadership style that is better than others or is defined as the best and can you kind of outline your teaching on what style is best and why style, that type of style even matters?
Allistair McCaw:Yeah. You know, I would say at the moment, I'm definitely leaning more towards a transformational leadership style where, you know, there's there's more of a decision made as a as a group instead of just, you know, a autocratic decision as do as I say. This generation, which is important, you know, there's two things I believe that we need to invest in, and that's number one, emotional intelligence and number two, generational codes. So under I believe that every coach leader today needs to be spending a lot of time on those two areas emotional intelligence, self awareness, social competence, personal competence, and of course generational codes understanding these generations that are coming through because it's it's coming faster and faster because of the technological changes. Transformational leadership style where there is some autonomy given and that's another area that we could go into because sometimes there's too much autonomy given and the tools are not provided, the competence isn't provided.
Allistair McCaw:You know, we put people in positions and just expect them to know, for example, and this is something I see in coaching and in country clubs and so on and so forth. I live here in Florida where, like like you do, where there's all these communities and country clubs and and academies and so on and so forth. But, you know, a a lot of coaches and and leaders are put in positions that they haven't had experience in or they haven't been shown good leadership, for example. So, you know, I believe that's important is that a a leader walks beside you, not in front of you, a leader that is able to spend the time with you. You know, if I you know, studying great leaders, if we just look at, for example, our Mercedes Benz Formula one team, which has been a very successful Formula one team for the last eight seasons with Lewis Hamilton, and that was not a winning team in 2012.
Allistair McCaw:And they went on to seven or eight world championships. Why? Is because that started at the leadership in terms of they have a leader called Toto Wolff who you you might call this micromanagement, but he is hands on with how he wants the coffee to be made, how he wants the restrooms to look on race day, for example. Now you might say that's micromanagement. This person is crazy, but it's those attention to details and and that leadership of showing the people personally, he rolls his sleeves up and shows the janitor how the soap dispenser should be.
Allistair McCaw:Now I'm not saying we all have to be that extreme, but what I'm saying is sometimes we give too much autonomy by just saying, there you go, you know Work it out. Work it out. Now here's the thing is that and I know this is avoiding, going around the question a little bit, but they might be great coaches. They might know the x's and o's. They might be have been great hitting partners.
Allistair McCaw:They might have played great college tennis, whatever it may be. But leadership is a different skill entirely to coaching. And this is something I really wanted to bring forward in my book, Lead With Purpose Make an Impact, is that you might have the coaching ability, you might know the x's and o's, you might be great with technique, but do you know how to lead people, do you know how to motivate people, do you know how to get the best out of people? That's where the magic lies.
Simon Gale:Yeah and I think when you start to couple that with what we've already talked about in relation to even as a junior playing team sports. When you're on a team and you start to hear the term, he's a natural leader or she's a natural leader You just see that even at a young age, you see kids who have this natural ability to help bring the group together and let's stay focused on this and you see that at an early age but from what I'm hearing, it's also something that can be learned and you can evolve into a great leader versus it's something that's all natural.
Allistair McCaw:Yeah, I think yes, you know, I believe you're born and you're made a leader but I think you do have an advantage being brought up in a home where there's been a good example of leadership. Now some of the best leaders in the world didn't didn't have the perfect home environment and upbringing. So there's so many sides we can look at that for example, but it does help to have a great example when you're younger. But even if you haven't had a great example when you're younger, where you might have had a tough child childhood for example, Those are still great lessons to to take. You know, we can choose to be the victor or the victim.
Allistair McCaw:And those are great lessons to take in terms of that's not how I want to raise my kids or that's not how I want to lead people and put it to a positive effect moving forward, for example. And I always like to use that example of of, you know, you can either play the victim or you can play the victor. What's past is past. You know, I saw a great video the other day of it was a monk on a boat, and he turned the camera to the ripple of the waves behind him. And he said, you know, this is like life.
Allistair McCaw:I can be focused on those ripples behind me of what's happened before in the past and beat myself up about it, or I can focus on the clear water ahead of me, for example. And it was just something I thought about with regards being the victor or or the victim in life. But leadership, yes. Like coaching, like learning any anything else is a skill that can can be learned and developed.
Kim Bastable:That that's a great story. I think that's a very good visual to create that feeling of we have clear waters ahead of us. How are we gonna deal with those? And frankly, they might ripple and be negative. We might make mistakes, but you have to keep and I think that's the athletic part of us.
Kim Bastable:We know we need to do that. Anybody who's in this Racquet Leadership has generally probably been exposed to competition, Racquet Sports, and they know that's what they must do to have the best hope of winning. But I don't know that we focus on that enough in our personal lives or in leadership as we look forward, and we knew and and I don't know that we realize that leadership is an entirely different skill set. So, Simon, I'd love to know just in your summary of what you've learned from Allistair, what would you say are some action items that you can take to the campus or do in the job of a director of Racquet Sports? I think there's, sometimes these conversations are great because they help reinforce maybe some of
Simon Gale:the things you may be doing as a leader currently and you're doing them reasonably well. I think if you're a leader who's got this excellence mindset or you're looking to just continue to evolve, these conversations make you, yes, reinforce some good things but you need to go back and look at that again. Is my vision and purpose clear? Is it, am I bringing along the team for the ride and do they all buy into what we're doing and are we collaborating towards achieving this? And so I immediately just go back to let's look at that again.
Simon Gale:Let's revisit that. Let's seek understanding from my team as to whether we are moving in the right direction or I think we are but do my 35, 40 pros or my small club with three or four pros all buy into where we're headed. So this is my favorite topic to talk about, very passionate about it. So I just appreciate the conversation but as I think more, it's let's go back and revisit some of these things and make sure it's the same as it was three years ago too or has it evolved?
Kim Bastable:Yeah. It sounds like that's Allistair's feeling too, is that there's always kind of a evolving a chance to reset. Do you have any other thoughts, Allistair, from what we've covered?
Allistair McCaw:Getting back to what you said there, just I read something very interesting the other day, Kim and and Simon, was that 90% of the things we worry about don't happen. So, you know, just getting back to the boat story there that I I wanted just to to add that is that 90% of the things that we worry about don't actually happen. So maybe that's gonna help help in the process. But, you know, for me, coaching is a vocation. It should be something that you love to do and not something that you have to do.
Allistair McCaw:Leadership is also for me a calling. Did I ever believe that I wanted to go into leadership or into where I am? No. But it just as you evolve and you have a lot of experiences and you fail and you experience all these things, that's how you develop as a person. And just like Simon said there now, it's good to evaluate and also confer with your team as well.
Allistair McCaw:One of the best questions a leader can ask is how can I lead you better? How can I lead this organization better? That's a very, very powerful question. But of course, we need to give them, you know, there needs to be psychological safety when you ask that question as well. There needs to be a safe environment to answer that question honestly.
Allistair McCaw:But it's
Kim Bastable:a very powerful question. How can I lead you better? That's a great question. That might be the takeaway of people asking that question and then being able to listen to the answer, being able to really accept the answer and realize that there may be some need for change and to be humble. So that's very, very good information.
Kim Bastable:We thank you very much. We are so thankful that Allistair has agreed to come back for a second episode where we can talk more about his research, teachings, experiences, great stories that he share as we apply this to Racquet's industry leadership. We encourage everyone to get a copy of one or more of of Allistair's books, but the one that we believe is most applicable to what we are trying to strive for on Racquet Fuel is lead with purpose and make an impact. So we encourage you to get that book, dive in, and we'll see you next time. Thank you, Allistair,
Allistair McCaw:for being with us today. Thank you so much.
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