Immigration Law and Tennis - with Michael DiRaimando
Welcome
Episode Narration:to Racquet Fuel, where we launch into great conversations and share powerful tools to help you become a stronger rackets leader. Your hosts are Kim Bastable, a former All American tennis player and now the Director of Tennis Management at the University of Florida. And Simon Gale, the USTA Senior Director of Racquet Sports Development. Today on Racquet Fuel, international applicants are often desired, needed, and most eager for jobs within our industry. Yet hiring them is difficult and expensive.
Episode Narration:In part two of our hiring series, we'll break down the system, the challenges, and the answers for hiring people with alternative visa statuses. Kim and Simon talk with Michael DiRaimando, who's been doing this for years. Here's Kim and Simon.
Kim Bastable:Welcome to Racquet Fuel. Today, we are going to address the tricky subject of hiring internationals. Given today's tight market for teaching pros, this is an option for clubs to consider. But how? We're going to explore the specifics with Michael DiRaimando, who for four decades has represented clients throughout the New York area with regard to removal cases, green card applications, adjustment of status petitions, asylum naturalization, and immigration litigation.
Kim Bastable:He's also worked directly with tennis clubs to find pros via the visa application process. Simon, this is your world. You are familiar with Michael and familiar with this process of finding a legal way to work in The US. So I'm sure this conversation is gonna take you down memory lane.
Simon Gale:Yeah. Thanks, Kim. And and and I'm excited to talk with Michael today because it's literally twenty five years since I started my immigration process back in fall ninety nine, which just means I'm getting much older, of course. But it was such a process and it was stressful and there was a lot involved and anxiety about whether you're going be able to stay. And I look back now and say, you know, it's the greatest thing that ever happened to me from a professional point of view to be able to end up here.
Simon Gale:And I know Michael is is passionate about about this subject, and we're excited to hear his his expertise today. So welcome, Michael. It's it's amazing to have you here. We've known each other a long time. Number one, you're a tennis fan.
Simon Gale:I know that. And the US Open thanks you for your support every year for two weeks. Every day, I think you go. So we appreciate your support as a tennis fan. He's a tennis player and in recent years has become a club owner, which offers, I think, a unique, well rounded experience perspective on this subject.
Simon Gale:And I know it impacts him directly from an employment point of view. So tell us a little bit about what you do and your motivation behind this process and and making this a career for yourself.
Michael DiRaimando:So I started playing tennis in law school, became addicted to it, worked for the Immigration Naturalization Service for seven years as one of their top prosecutors, left in 1986. And my first client was a Romanian tennis pro who was seeking a green card and actually was one of the four musketeers from Romania that played with Nastasi and Tyriac back in the nineteen seventies. Through him, he sent me hundreds of tennis pros from around the world coming into the East Coast in The United States. And I sort of picked up a tennis specialty in immigration law, bringing in tennis pros from all over the world for all over The United States. I think I had represented close to 200 clubs at one point throughout The United States and academies.
Michael DiRaimando:In 1990 or so, I went down to Vandermeer to take a one week clinic, and I took a lesson before the clinic with Louis Cap. And he said to me in the beginning, what do you do? And I said, I do immigration law. He threw the racket down on the ground, ran off the court, didn't say goodbye to me. I said, where is this guy going?
Michael DiRaimando:And he came back out with Gavin Cox, the manager, and he said to me that mister VanderMeer could not bring in tennis pros from all over the world. And he had traveled all over the world, and they were having problems. And they gave me the first case. And at that point, I started representing the PTR, and they were referring cases to me from the PTR. And I was referring cases to them to the PTR at the same time, pros that needed to get certified and needed to become more professional in The United States.
Michael DiRaimando:So it worked hand in hand. So I've been I've been doing tennis for a long time, and then about fifteen, sixteen years ago, had the opportunity to put a bid in on a city concession for a tennis club that had never been a tennis club in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, New York. Took six and a half years to build the club. I'm in an amazing area. I have seven courts.
Michael DiRaimando:I have the concession. Thousands of players, 350 to 400 kids for the indoor season. So I've I've gone the whole circle at this point. And, yes, I'm a tennis fan. I'm a certified tennis pro.
Michael DiRaimando:I'm a club owner. I'm addicted to tennis. And if I can bring tennis pros in from all over the world and help American tennis, can't be better. Just a great thing.
Simon Gale:And I think that's what makes you unique for us today is that you're not just an immigration lawyer. You you've got your hands in all aspects of tennis and can talk to the pain points that club owners and managers have with with attracting and retaining pros. And as I said earlier, it's twenty five years for me since my process started. What I know though is it is incredibly difficult to make that process come together and have all the stars line up and get to the finish line. And when I first got here, one of the things I was sold on was that it was about three years for the process from visa to getting your green card and it was quite a smooth process.
Simon Gale:And then nine eleven happened and things changed dramatically. And I was in the middle of my process and suddenly three years became six or seven years to get to the finish line. So with where we are today, how difficult is it to hire internationals now?
Michael DiRaimando:It's gotten much more difficult in my opinion. The process has gotten more difficult, which doesn't make any sense to me because we're letting millions of people across the border. And and why are we giving professionals and people that have a specific talent and specialty a hard time? That's what makes America great. There's a difference.
Michael DiRaimando:I I also do believe in the numbers that are here. Back in the seventies, eighties, and nineties, we had more of a greater number of tennis pros from all over the world that were here with no status, and we were able to change that status even if they were overstays or illegally here. Slowly but surely, those things changed. 1996, there were two immigration laws that came into into play, and they made the process more difficult. Unfortunately, you got caught right at 09:11, and things just sort of stopped and slowed down right right at 09:11 time and for a couple years afterwards, but I knew that would be fixed.
Michael DiRaimando:But it is more difficult today. The USCIS, which is United States Citizenship and Immigration Service, gives us a hard time on on a lot of these petitions today. Again, I don't understand the reasoning, and the mentality really hasn't changed. But still, tennis is is a specialty, and it's still possible. And I still do it.
Michael DiRaimando:I still bring in pros from all over the world. And there's quite a few different visas that we can utilize to bring tennis pros into into The United States, and I'm still actively involved in this. The good thing on my end is that I play tennis. I participate in the PTR and the USTA. I understand a tennis pro's capabilities and qualifications and what's necessary for the visas, and this helps me place the people within a specific category for a visa.
Michael DiRaimando:And we have h one b visas. We have o ones for people that are outstanding exceptional. We have h three training visas. We have p ones that are are are either coaches or or playing players that actually come in to compete. And then you go forward from that point to the green card.
Michael DiRaimando:So it's a stepping stone, but you are correct. It it it has gotten more difficult, and it's across the board. It's not only for tennis players. It's it's across the board even for, other professionals that come into The United States.
Kim Bastable:Well, and I understand that there's some variances regarding country they come from. So is there certain do you look into that and certain countries are easier, or is it pretty standard across all countries?
Michael DiRaimando:Pretty standard across, you know, there there is no cap on the o one visas, which is for the outstanding and exceptional players and coaches. For example, those that fit into that category could be people that are on the ATP, WTA, Davis Cup players, Davis Cup coaches. There's no cap on those visas. Those are the more difficult visas, and those roll right into a a better category for green cards. And then you have h ones, which you need a a degree.
Michael DiRaimando:It it could be in sports. It could be in sports management, something along those lines. It could be in psychology. I have brought in mental toughness coaches, you know, which which is a a specialty also. But you need to have a four year bachelor's degree in your home country that's equivalent to a four year degree here.
Michael DiRaimando:And there's only 65,000 of those visas a year. That visa category has never been changed in decades. And if you have a master's degree in in one of those specialties, there's another 20,000. So now we get anywhere from a 130,000 to 200,000 visas per year for 65,000 to 85,000 visas. So it becomes a it becomes a lottery.
Michael DiRaimando:It's become much more difficult to get those people into the h ones. So that's a problem. You know? So the country caps really happen with respect to the green card. They don't really happen so much with respect to the visas.
Michael DiRaimando:However, there are caps with respect to certain visas, but not not a broad overall cap based on country.
Kim Bastable:So I'm trying to understand what's what's a college person who has graduated from four year university and followed it up with a master's? Why are they only granted, say, a one year or two year OPT and then sent out of our country?
Michael DiRaimando:Complete stupidity is part of the government in my my opinion. You know, we train not only, you know, tennis players, but people in all walks and all professions. And then we don't allow them to stay here. And probably eight to nine years ago, anybody that went to college here and did OPT never left. I was able to keep them here permanently.
Michael DiRaimando:Not the case anymore. So you get one year of optional practical training when you graduate. If you're in a STEM degree program, you can get three years now, which is fantastic as far as practical training. But if you don't get chosen for an h one b visa, one of the 65,000 or one of the 20,000 for the master's degree, you have to leave after the practical training, and it doesn't make sense. We teach you.
Michael DiRaimando:We train you. You work in an internship or a program for a year to three, and then we send you back home or abroad to compete with us. Congress has lost sight completely lost sight of this, and it's extremely frustrating from on our end, especially as immigration attorneys, to see this happen across the board. You know, what makes America great is bringing all the best from all over the world and all the professions and keeping them, you know, making this country better. And I'm so happy about bringing in tennis professionals for the past forty years because I wanna make American tennis great.
Michael DiRaimando:You know? I wanna bring in the best to teach our kids, to teach our adults, to teach our players, you know, to to make America tennis competitive on the worldwide scale. And to me, it's it's the utmost gratification to bring in professional coaches that are excellent and outstanding in their field, in their country, some of the best to teach our kids. Oh my gosh. There's nothing nothing better.
Michael DiRaimando:Just nothing better.
Simon Gale:So, Mike, you own a club in Brooklyn. You mentioned that earlier. You hire teaching pros. You've got outstanding numbers and a and a volume of business there that you're trying to service. And you said, I'm having trouble attracting and retaining talent.
Simon Gale:We know the market's really tight. There's an abundance of job openings and and a lack of pros, especially strong pros that add value to a business. It's one thing to get someone who can feed and say, follow through, bend your knees and so on, but it's another thing to have someone who actually adds value to your business. So is this a realistic employment opportunity these days for an owner thinking about ways to attract talent?
Michael DiRaimando:Oh, without a doubt. And and there is clearly a shortage. I mean, I see it in Brooklyn, and I can't get enough qualified pros. So it's really a difficult thing. And there are many foreign pros that come here that go to school here, and and it is definitely some way to to help us, you know, fill these slots.
Michael DiRaimando:Again, you have the o one visa for those that are outstanding and exceptional. They had to be outstanding and exceptional in their country, and there's a list of qualifications that you need to meet. You have the h one b's where if you get a four year degree in a sports related field that you can apply for one of the 65,000 if you go on and get a master's degree, one of the 20,000. If you get OPT or or you get, you know, one year or three years, it helps even better because we could actually really almost finish a green card process in the three years if you get a three year, practical training. And then you have the p visas.
Michael DiRaimando:So, yes, you know, I can look at the player. I can look at the resumes, and then I could try to fit them into one of these categories. And another one that I use utilized, especially, you know, during your time a lot was an h three training visa where I I basically would work with the with the club to to basically come up with a training program while somebody may have learned how to teach in, you know, a foreign country whether whether it was Europe or South America or Mexico. It doesn't necessarily mean that they know how to train people in The United States and how to get certified through the PTR or the USTA. So coming up with a training program and then putting that person in through a a training program, getting an h three visa, and then doing a green card during that process, another way to do it.
Michael DiRaimando:So there are clearly paths to do this. I still utilize them, and, I think it's it's really important for our tennis clubs and our academies because I think there's a real shortage. Many American kids don't necessarily go into tennis. You know, they they may go to, college and and pick business, law, medical profession, accounting, whatever it may be. When they graduate, even though they were a tennis player, possibly since they were a small child and played college tennis, doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna go into a tennis field or a tennis teaching field.
Michael DiRaimando:So that's the other dilemma where we get the shortage. You know? Again, there were many, many more pros. I I see the difference in the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties, but it's not the same today because it's much more difficult to get into the country, and it's more difficult to become legal in the country if you are illegally here for a period of time. So it's still a great way to do it.
Michael DiRaimando:I I work on it constantly. I still bring tennis pros in, and I think it's really, really important, especially seeing it from a club owner now. You know? Yeah. I'm I'm at a totally different perspective.
Michael DiRaimando:I've owned the club now going into my eighth year, and it's a and it's something I always look for. You know? Can I can I sponsor somebody? Can I get them a working visa and then do a green card for them? And, course, I wanna do that, and I wanna keep that person with me if they're a good pro and a good teacher.
Simon Gale:Well, I think one of the challenges is that I look back to my experience. I started coming in '92 to The States. I didn't find a sponsor until '99. It took me seven years going back and forth doing summers here to eventually find a sponsor and that was by accident that met Jeff Gokey. So one of the challenges is as a foreign pro or someone in the country as a college student who's got a passion for tennis and thinking of this pathway is where do I where do I get started?
Simon Gale:How do I find somebody to actually sponsor me? Because you almost need a separate job board that's if you're international, here's facilities that look to hire. I know people through networking and I'll connect them with certain clubs and I'll connect them with you, but they don't have that knowledge. So that is a big challenge to start with is how do I start this process? So in your experience, are there many facilities, businesses that are advertising employment with sponsorship these days and where does a college athlete or a pro even start to try and find some of these people?
Michael DiRaimando:I I don't it's a very good question. I don't see the advertisement being done with the sponsorship, you know, but I get I have the same as you. I have a very large network, and I have a network with many clubs and club owners, and I'll do the same exact thing. And sometimes when I'm looking for, you know, a a tennis pro, I'll even go to the PTR and say, hey. Do you know anybody recently?
Michael DiRaimando:You know, people do come to The United States for certifications through the PTR and the USDA. And once in a while, they meet somebody, you know, that says, hey. You know, are you interested in staying here? Or I know a club. But, yes, it's more difficult.
Michael DiRaimando:But I think going to one of the tennis, you know, foundations of this country, the PTR and the USDA, is a a good way to start. Club owners do advertise, but I've never seen it with a sponsorship. I've I've never actually seen that. And, you know, some some sponsorships will pay for the Visa, will pay for the green card, or will pay for part of it. I think that has become more frustrating for club club owners that know about this process because it's become more difficult over the past twenty three years since nine eleven.
Michael DiRaimando:You know, once nine eleven happened, you know, there was actually talk of closing the borders. No more immigration. Immigration's a bad thing. We got a bad rap. However, we're all we're all immigrants.
Michael DiRaimando:We all come from somewhere. We all have immigrant roots, the entire country. So it it's it's it's a little strange that that occurred, but I think we've passed that at this point, you know, twenty three years later. And if you look at what's happening with the borders right now, I I heard recently that we've let 15,000,000 people in in the last two years over the Mexican US border. So, things have to change without a doubt, but they've gotta look at those resources.
Michael DiRaimando:They you know, and many times, the person has played college tennis, and there are connections through the coach, through the assistant coach, or they wanna go take a a course at, you know, one of the academies, and there is a connection, and, of course, then a funneling of that person. But, yes, it is more difficult, but we've got a tremendous shortage. So, you know, when I when I, again, needs need someone and I really need someone, I advertise. And I get people. I definitely get people.
Michael DiRaimando:You know, I get people applying. I I've interviewed 10 people in the last two weeks at the club.
Simon Gale:It feels like there's an opportunity though for to create a bit more of a funnel or a system where there's somewhere to find these because not everybody has access to these raw resources or websites and knows where to even start. So potential opportunities moving forward.
Michael DiRaimando:Yes. I I I think maybe there should be something done on our part, and you and I can talk about that, about what we can do to maybe get the word out there more to to help these people. You you know, the other the other problem is, and and I know you know this, you can say you're a tennis pro, but you need somebody that's more than just feeding the balls and bend your knees and keep your eyes on the ball. And you need somebody that really knows how to teach, you know, and and how to feed and has the experience to do that. So it's it's it's a different level when you really wanna look for somebody that's a good tennis pro, that's gonna be an asset to the club, to the academy, and to The United States.
Michael DiRaimando:I I know you see that all the time, so so do I.
Kim Bastable:So your answer creates me to ask two questions, and you mentioned the sponsorship item. But can you give a ballpark of the cost involved? Like, what would a sponsor, and are there variances? I don't I don't know if it's one cost for all visas or whatever. But if a club was gonna sponsor or an individual is gonna try to pull this off themselves, how much how much money does it take?
Michael DiRaimando:I think you're looking at a range depending on the visa between 2,500 to $10,000 based on the visa. And the other thing that I think is very very important is and I stress all the time. If I meet somebody that's in college, I say, listen. You gotta get a sports degree. You gotta get a sports management degree.
Michael DiRaimando:You gotta get a psychology degree for mental toughness. Gotta get something related to tennis, and you gotta do OPT. When you're done, you have to sign up for that OPT. So we at least get that one year. And if you could go into a STEM, you know, degree, then we get the three years.
Michael DiRaimando:So that's super, super important. You know, instead of choosing something that may not help with respect to a visa. But I think that's what you're looking at as far as course. You know, green cards will be different than the actual visas because the green cards will be based on one, are you outstanding and exceptional, you know, which would be a separate one, or do we have to go out there and actually, you know, do what's called the perm to see if there's any Americans that can fill those positions? And if there's a a shortage of those positions, we can get you a green card, you know, based on the shortage of Americans.
Michael DiRaimando:And there is a shortage. There's no doubt about that.
Kim Bastable:Well well, that's my next question is, okay. What what is it that we need to do advocacy wise? I mean, do we need to be speaking to our senators and congressmen? I mean, if there's an immigration I mean, we know there's immigration craziness in this country, but does our industry need to do more to advocate change that can because we do have a shortage in, and we have all these capable people. Is that something that we should be more organized about?
Michael DiRaimando:I I definitely think we should be. But to give you an example, we, during the late nineteen nineties, we had 200,000 h one b's, you know, because of the computer shortage. And then once that changed, they rolled it back from 200,000 to 65,000. We didn't have a shortage of h one b's during that whole period of time. But once they rolled it back to sixty five thousand, we've had a shortage and it's become a lottery.
Michael DiRaimando:But, yes, I think we need to get congressional help here. And the the visa categories, the numbers haven't changed in decades. Thirty, forty years, the the numbers haven't changed. We're stuck at 65,000. My understanding is we need a 100,000 or more engineers in this country.
Michael DiRaimando:You know? Besides, you know, computer people, every specialty needs it, and we're stuck with 85,000 total. Yes. You know, we're letting people across the border, but we're not keeping the people we're training across the board. And we clearly have a tremendous shortage, and we do need to get congress involved.
Michael DiRaimando:But it's been so anti immigrant, you know, since 09/11. I it's changed, it's become more open in the last, you know, three or four years based on this administration. But they haven't changed the quotas. Okay. We opened the borders.
Michael DiRaimando:Not so sure that's the right thing to do. And I'm a very liberal person about immigration, you know, but we don't really know everybody that's coming across the border. But what about the people that we're training and go to school here? And and we wanna keep here. They add to the gross national product.
Michael DiRaimando:They get jobs. They buy houses. They buy apartments. They buy cars. You know, they they they add.
Michael DiRaimando:They have families. We're just not doing that, and we need to get a change, but it's been difficult. It's congress has just been very difficult about the whole issue.
Simon Gale:So, Mike, in in relation to kind of the legal implications or responsibilities for a facility and and for the the the sponsored athlete coming in as well. But like any relationship, we're 're hoping this is going to be a perfect marriage between player or coach and facility, but we know it doesn't always work out. You know, the goal is for this to be a win win. I get to work for you for three or four years while I go through the process. My return on investment as an owner is I've got three or four years out of you, which is double the average of how long a pro generally stays at a facility.
Simon Gale:And at the end, you get to stay in the country and go on to your next opportunity and grow in America. So that's a real win win. However, if it doesn't work, what what are the options for the sponsor and then and then the coach as well in terms of being able to stay in the country and go and find another sponsor? Can you transfer? How does that work in case it doesn't work out?
Michael DiRaimando:Well, it depends on the it's a great question. It depends on the visa category. For instance, h one b's, you can transfer. It's called portability. So all you need to do is get another sponsor and file.
Michael DiRaimando:You don't even need the approval, and you get portability to start working and the h one gets transferred. Other ones are not transferable. The o one, which is exceptional and outstanding, you would need to refile. You know, the p, you would need to refile. And the p, again, could be for a coach.
Michael DiRaimando:It also could be for a player that's competing in The United States. You know, the h three, which is the training visa, is not portable and not readily transferrable. You'd have to start all over again. But, generally, once you hear, you know, your your options really are much greater because you're in the tennis world. You meet tennis people.
Michael DiRaimando:You meet other other pros. You meet other club owners. You meet people that know other people. Your network becomes bigger. So the the availability of getting another sponsor becomes greater.
Michael DiRaimando:There's no doubt about that. But, yes, there's there's still a problem, and, it's it's something that can be dealt with and I deal with every year. Yeah. I I have pros that move or, you know, it doesn't work out with the club or they don't like what's going on at the club or there's a downsizing at the club and they need to move or they wanna move to a different part of The United States or they get a better offer. You know?
Michael DiRaimando:They get a a better offer to go to a different club and become a director instead of a a tennis pro or a head pro. So, you know, those those options do. I just did one for someone who's outstanding. We did four petitions within about a two year period, you know, because it just didn't work out. We just kept moving on, and luckily, she had the availability and the contacts to keep getting different sponsors.
Michael DiRaimando:You know? So a little frustrating on her end, really frustrating on my end also. But, you know, you get to a point where it works out. It definitely works out. So the the goal is is, you know, always to stay legal, and green cards are transferable also depending what stage they get in.
Michael DiRaimando:Okay? So it depends where you are in that green green card stage. If you're in the first stage, may not be transferable. But if you get the perm approved, then you file the I one forty, which is the petition for the working visa, and it's been pending for more than six months, that's transferable to the new club. So there are a whole bunch of rules, you know, that that really help us with this, but it depends again what stage you're at in that process.
Kim Bastable:This is just a that answer alone is just mind boggling, and we're thankful there's wise people like you who are advising. And I I can't imagine anybody in this position not wanting to be very tight with a lawyer like you to to understand the implications. I really appreciate your time to explain this. So is there a pathway to permanent residency once you get to The US through an initial visa?
Michael DiRaimando:Absolutely. If you you get the visa and, actually, there's a pathway if you don't even get the initial visa. I mean, if if I found somebody great and I knew the person's work history and I got to see the person, you know, and and he or she was in Italy, I could sponsor that person to come in in the future with a green card. You know? So that's rare because usually the employer, whether it's a club or an academy or another type of occupation, they want the person to work for them because they wanna see how good that person is.
Michael DiRaimando:But I could actually bring somebody in from a foreign country and do the green card process while they're not here. But if you get one of these visas, yes, there's no doubt that there's a pathway to a green card. It used to be back in in twenty years ago, eighteen months, maybe to twenty four months, which I'm probably what I told you, Simon, back at the time. Then it went up to about three years. Now we're in post COVID.
Michael DiRaimando:It could be anywhere from three to six years to do the green card process. And it's because the government's just completely overburdened. They haven't hired. They lost people through attrition. You know, people moving to other agencies, They haven't hired, and, they're they're overwhelmed.
Michael DiRaimando:There's no doubt about it. But, yes, you get one of these visas, and, clearly, the best visa one can get is if you're outstanding and exceptional in one's country. Because if you can get an o one visa, there's an e b one, which is for outstanding and exceptional people, you know, in their category, in their classification. So if you get an o one, the regulations are identical for the o one and the e b one. So in my opinion, you need to do the o one first.
Michael DiRaimando:You get that approved because it's a little easier. And then once you get the o one approved, you work for a year or two, and then you go on to the green card process through the e b one category, and it should be approved. I had a case years ago. It was a New York case. He got approved for the o one visa.
Michael DiRaimando:When I did the e b one, the USCIS said it was no longer outstanding and exceptional. And I said that's impossible. The regulations I'm telling you are identical. And I put together a legal letter, filed it with USCIS, and a month later, he got approved. So, you know, there is a process for doing this, and and the first step is clearly getting a working visa.
Michael DiRaimando:Most organizations, again, whether it's tennis, the law field, the medical field, the dental field, the accounting field, I don't care what it is, they wanna see if the person could work. They wanna see how good that employee is before they're gonna sponsor that person. So the visa step, I think, is the first most important step to going forward and then green card. Once you become a green card holder, you're looking at five years before you become eligible to apply for citizenship, you know, which everybody should do.
Simon Gale:Well, I I I can attest to that because I did it about seven years or so ago. Going in thinking this was just I'll get my piece of paper. I'll shake someone's hand and move on. I brought Suzanne with me, my wife, and I sat there and halfway through it, she looks at me and I'm crying. And I'm like, what the hell is going on with me here?
Simon Gale:I'm in the middle of this the the citizenship ceremony and they're making speeches and playing music and so on. And I'm looking around and there wasn't a dry eye in the house and there had to be a couple 100 people. It was a very emotional day because I think it was a long journey for everybody who'd been in there. So the meaning was profound. Your answer to the last question kind of segues perfect to this one.
Simon Gale:The importance of finding a good lawyer who knows what they are talking about and understands this process has been reinforced throughout this conversation. I have had and I have seen lawyers who aren't great at this fumble through it and not get somebody to the finish line. If I am a facility owner manager looking to explore this, clearly that is important because there is an investment of time and potentially money to make this happen. How important is finding that right lawyer? And and apart from telling everybody about you, Michael, how how would somebody go about finding the right immigration lawyer?
Simon Gale:What are they looking for?
Michael DiRaimando:Well, it's it's important in every aspect of every field and every specialty to look for the right attorney. There's no doubt about that. So you wanna find somebody that, one, specializes in immigration law, and two, one that does, you know, visas, especially visas for people who work, working visas, h one b visas, o one visas, p visas. And the best would be if you could find somebody that has done sports people and specifically tennis people, tennis pros, tennis coaches. You know, if you can find somebody that has done that and been successful in that realm, that's ideal.
Michael DiRaimando:Again, I I'm just fortunate because I've I've been in the tennis field and business for fifty years, playing tennis for fifty years, and I know the business now. And I understand what a player goes through, and I understand what a coach needs, that helps me tremendously in putting together a package for one of these visas because I know what's necessary. But you need to you need to find somebody that has that background and especially has done it before in my opinion. And there are plenty of specialists that do this across The United States. So you need to search for that person.
Michael DiRaimando:I mean, people come to me all the time for all different types of legal problems, and I try to find them a specialist in that, whether it's matrimonial, whether it's real estate, could be a criminal problem, could be an immigration problem, could be an immigration criminal problem. I try to find somebody that's a specialist in that specific field. Really, really important. Because if you don't know what you're doing in this field, it's so complex and it's been amended so many times over the last fifty to sixty years. You just can't pick it up and try to dabble in it, which some attorneys try to do, and it's not gonna work.
Michael DiRaimando:Just not gonna work. And then the pro loses their money. The club loses their money. You don't get the visa the working visa for the pro, and everybody is frustrated. So really, really important.
Kim Bastable:Well, this has been an incredible thirty five minutes. We really appreciate your time. The one thing I thought would clarify, you two are in the immigration world a little bit deeper than I am, so I'm I've just heard of a lot of these cases. But let's just be clear. So if somebody comes over and and gets does an OPT or or or gets a visa, the sponsor will they're responsible to stay with the sponsor until when?
Kim Bastable:Like, is that forever? Is that like, how long is that agreement for? I'm not quite sure I understand that.
Michael DiRaimando:Well, it it's it's an agreement at will, basically. So but for example, the h one b is granted for three years. The o one is granted for three years. An h three training visa could be granted for eighteen months to two years. So there is a specific time frame for each visa.
Michael DiRaimando:Some people may leave if they get a better opportunity and go to a different club or academy if you're the employee. If you're the employer, you wanna hold on to that person for as long as possible, And then you wanna do an extension of that visa if you need to do so, which do exist for almost all visas, or you wanna go to the green card and keep that person here for another two, three, four years while you do the green card process. So it's important. But, yes, there there is a a limitation, and it differs with all the different variations of the categories.
Kim Bastable:Right. Okay. I just wanted to understand the timing. Okay. Well, as, Simon and I always try to get, you know, one or two just just tidbits, like pieces of advice to give to our listeners.
Kim Bastable:And let's say we have a director that's looking for, you know, wanting to staff their club. What is your advice directly to them in terms of if they come across someone that's in this realm or wanna dabble in finding an international? Can you provide some just advice to them where to start?
Michael DiRaimando:Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And what I usually do is I ask for a resume of the pro so I can see, you know, where that experience is and what category I could try to fit that pro into as far as to one of these working visas. You know? And, again, not everybody's outstanding and exceptional, which is clearly the best one to go into.
Michael DiRaimando:But, you know, there are specialties. But, yes, I I help people all across the board, all over The United States. The interesting thing about immigration law is it's federal law. So you only have to be admitted in one state to practice, and I practice in about 30 states across The United States. I could practice in all 50, but I do practice in about 30.
Michael DiRaimando:So as long as you're admitted in one state, it's federal practice. You can practice immigration law in the whole country. So I do, you know, visa petitions, and I do green cards in California, Texas, Florida. Of course, my my home is New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, the East Coast, you know, so Pennsylvania. But you you can practice in the whole United States.
Michael DiRaimando:So reaching out, in my opinion, to one of the organizations is a great thing to do. You know? And you actually see advertisements in, like, the PTR magazine, you know, and reaching out to one of the organizations, the USDA or the PTR, and and seeing if if there's some way you can tap into their resources, which are huge. That's a great way for a club owner or a pro to seek out a position or a visa.
Kim Bastable:That's great. Simon, you've gotta have some thoughts here. I know you. What are what are your pieces of advice to the listener?
Simon Gale:I'm encouraged that there's still a pathway, not that there wasn't, but I haven't followed it as closely. But I I've seen people struggle a little bit in recent times and maybe that's directly attached to the quality of their immigration lawyer and what process they went through. But I think it's encouraging to hear that this pathway and I think given the high percentage of foreign athletes that we have in colleges who have a skill set that could could benefit our industry if they wanted to go down that pathway, the opportunity for us to make this clearer and see where I can go and where do I start is something that I take away because if we've got lawyers like Michael involved, think we can we can we can elevate the industry. And I think foreigners bring a lot to the table in terms of their passion and their drive to be successful in the country. They've got a bit of chip on the shoulder to come in and and prove themselves.
Simon Gale:And I think that only adds to the the dynamic of any facility.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. I mean, as a university professor, I see this from the university end and I see a lot of eager people coming from foreign countries for our education systems. And I just think it's tragic that we ultimately send them back. Particularly, I'm in the master's area, and, you know, we have master's educated people that we we send back because we they can't find a way. And, yeah, I would I would love to see this cleaned up, more education based system, you know, perks for the for those that are a higher elite higher educated would be, you know, seems most logical, as you said, Michael.
Kim Bastable:I don't know why we aren't thinking about it. But we appreciate your time very much. We thank you for it. We really are appreciative of you opening up this very complicated subject for us.
Michael DiRaimando:My pleasure. My pleasure. Great talking to you. Have a great day. Cheers, Mike.
Kim Bastable:Thank you. That's all we have for you today on Racquet Fuel.
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