Hire and Fire with Intentionality - featuring USTA's David Konecky
Welcome to Racquet Fuel, where we launch into great conversations and share powerful tools to help you become a stronger Racquet's leader. Your hosts are Kim Bastable, a former All American tennis player and now the director of tennis management at the University of Florida. And Simon Gale, the USTA senior director of Racquet Sports Development. Today on Racquet Fuel, how to hire and fire are two of the most challenging aspects of running and leading a business. In part one of two podcasts on hiring, we'll learn tips from the head of talent acquisition for the USTA, Dave Konecky, who will help us crack the code on how to hire and fire with intentionality and not guesswork.
Episode Narration:Here's Kevin Simon. Welcome to Racquet Fuel.
Kim Bastable:Today, we are talking with Dave Konecky, senior director of talent acquisition at the USTA. He spent the last twenty years in the human resources world and brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to today's conversation. Simon, you worked with Dave, and you have no doubt spent plenty of time discussing the hiring process, people management, the intricacies of this. In this in this day and age, it's quite tricky. You've had him as a constant resource, but I'm very glad that our listeners get to enjoy this resource and can share Dave's knowledge.
Simon Gale:Well, welcome Dave. It's nice to have you join us today. Yes, we have spent a lot of time together, mainly with good things, but once in a while we have to go through some tougher situations. But he's a tremendous resource and very helpful for us here at the USTA. So welcome, Dave.
David Konecky:Simon and Kim, thank you so much for having me. This is really exciting. When when you asked me Simon to be a part of this, you know, I I couldn't wait to get this going. This is something new for me and and I'm excited to have the conversation. So thank you.
Simon Gale:Well, I love that we're talking about this topic today because it's one that affects all of us who are in leadership roles and the podcast is directed towards people in current leadership roles or people aspiring to move into leadership and hiring's very complicated and there's a lot of steps involved and and a lot of us don't have an HR department and manage clubs and we are the HR department and try and get it the best we can. So I think if you can impart some of that knowledge and give us a few tips today, it can impact our listeners. We're at a unique point in time though where we're faced with a high demand for services post COVID. Tennis has grown and and especially with the addition, I would say, of of complimentary racket sports. A lot of facilities are looking for even more people.
Simon Gale:So generally, have a shortage of of talent at the moment and and having trouble meeting demand. So in your mind, what are some of the challenges of hiring today and and some trends you're seeing in the role with with talent acquisition?
David Konecky:You know, Simon, you're a 100% correct. You know, right now is a unique time in terms of hiring, especially for tennis professionals. You know, we see there is a shortage. A lot of what we have to do now is really grow and and help our current staff sort of grow into, you know, roles. Right?
David Konecky:And and sort of share a career path for those folks. You've done such a great job, Simon, at the USTA with the pathway. You and I have partnered on that, and that's been a a huge sort of benefit for folks working at the USTA. So that's definitely a plus. Here, you know, we've seen for positions we've been having to essentially utilize resources such as yourself, such as, you know, other tennis directors within the organization to try to attract talent.
David Konecky:You know, when I first started in the organization, thirteen years ago, you know, there was more of a pool of folks to look at interested in in teaching tennis and staying long term. Now, you know, we have to really be creative in terms of how we're hiring folks and how we're bringing people.
Simon Gale:So in in relation to that hiring process, for me, and I think it's probably normal at any club I've I've managed is that your initial interview might be a thirty minute screening. It used to be on a phone phone call. Post COVID, it's become virtual which is is a great tool to actually get to see somebody's interaction with you. What are some of the key takeaways you would be looking for out of out of a thirty minute to be able to say this is somebody I wanna I wanna move forward with?
David Konecky:It almost feels like a speed dating approach. Right? So, you know, within a thirty minute conversation to to your point, Simon, a lot of our initial interviews now are the that virtual approach prior to bringing folks on-site to to sort of see their tennis acumen. You basically wanna make sure that that candidates are fit within the culture of of what we're looking for. Right?
David Konecky:Obviously, speak to their knowledge of tennis, knowledge of their experience teaching, but culture is so important. Each organization has a different culture. And if you're bringing someone in who has the skills necessary but don't fit the culture, we've seen that it doesn't necessarily work out. You know, also professionalism is really important. So, you know, for example, I've been on interviews where people are taking interviews from their car on a cell phone and, you know, not necessarily focused on the interview itself, and and that tells us a lot in terms of the seriousness that they're taking the interview.
David Konecky:So we look at all those types of things and, you know, also working very closely with the hiring managers. One of the things that we try to do is develop really good relationships with the hiring managers. You and I, Simon, have a I think a great relationship. Hope you feel the same. But we're getting to know each other and sort of get a sense of what you like and what you don't like.
David Konecky:So the people that we put forward to you, we have a very good, you know, feeling that you like the folks in front of you.
Simon Gale:So for the team who doesn't have a resource like yourself, the typical club director who's doing these interviews on their own Yep. Would you suggest that that they're doing it with somebody else to get a Yeah. A diversity of feedback versus I'm the one doing the interview. What what would you recommend?
David Konecky:Yeah. No question. I think it's always great to have, you know, multiple people within the process for a few reasons. One is, especially people who haven't interviewed a lot before. One of the issues that I've had when I first started interviewing is I was so in tune with trying to get through the questions when I first started that I forgot to really assess the people in front of me.
David Konecky:Also, after the interviews, what I always like to do is connect with the other people in the room because everyone has different thoughts and different feelings. Someone might connect well with you but not as great with me. So having that conversation with the other folks really kinda helps bring us, you know, get get to sort of everything on the table so we really get a sense of if this person would be a fit or not. But that's only the first step of the interview.
Simon Gale:Absolutely. And I have one I'm gonna put you on the spot here, Dave, and then I think Kim's got a got a question she's dying to ask you. Okay. What would be the number one question that you would ask somebody in a first screening interview to say, this is kind of my this is my go to to see if this is somebody who's going to fit our culture. And even if your culture might be different everywhere, every facility is different, but a general question that says this is somebody that that that we have to pursue.
David Konecky:So I think you're really gonna dislike this answer, but I think it's more than one question. And the reason why I say that is because, you know, we really wanna focus the interviews, the initial interview at least, focusing on behavioral questions. So the concept of a behavioral question is a past performance. Is it for past performance, a predictor of how someone will perform in the future. Right?
David Konecky:So I always like to get a sense from the individual. You know, tell me about a difficult day at work. How did you handle that? You know, and then follow-up with questions like, alright. Would you have done anything a little bit differently?
David Konecky:Right? Talk to me about, also, you know, conflict at work between coworkers. How did you handle that? Now a good answer is, you know, there was a conflict. We met together.
David Konecky:We came we agreed to to move forward, maybe disagreed with, you know, the concept, but move forward and be able to work forward together moving forward. But then the bad answer would be we got into an argument. We were yelling at each other. I never spoke to that person again. Right?
David Konecky:And that seems extreme what I just said, but it really does happen. People are very honest on interviews. And, you know, that to me would be a red flag. You know, we need to make sure that all work environments are comfortable. People feel like they have the ability to, express themselves.
David Konecky:And I think, you know, those types of behavioral questions will definitely predict if this individual will be a fit in the future for the for the club.
Kim Bastable:Well, I think that's the question that comes to my mind is that what is a cultural fit? You know? What what how do you you talk about it, and I've heard it talked many places. But how do you really get that part? I like the behavior questions.
Kim Bastable:Those are great. But how do you really know the culture part?
David Konecky:Yeah. I think, obviously, culture is a buzzword now. Right? Everyone is using everything has to be a cultural fit. And it really know, when we first started, you know, when I first started a a long time ago interviewing, you didn't really focus as much on culture, more on the the job itself.
David Konecky:Can someone do the job? Right? Now from a cultural fit, it's really important because times have changed and, you know, we wanna make sure that where that the organization is in a position where people are are always feeling comfortable, always feeling like they wanna express themselves, and focus on putting people in a position to be successful. So what does culture look like? Right?
David Konecky:And to me, you know, what culture is is a basically a word that we use to that equates to comfortability and equates to individuals feeling like they want to go to work. Right? Like, for me, I've been at the USTA for thirteen years and every day I I wake up excited to come to work because I really love the organization. Right? We want everyone that works with us to feel that and I think that's the definition of culture.
David Konecky:A poor culture in my mind is when people wake up and say, I don't want to go to work today. You know, I'm not happy at where I am. But if you want to come to work and you want to be in that location, to me that's a good culture.
Simon Gale:You have to have your culture defined as well. Mhmm. So we have a USTA culture but I had a Taconic Sport and Racquet culture or Yonkers Tennis Center culture, other places I've worked Because if I'm not clear on that as the leader, it's very hard to look for what fits our culture versus it's a gut feeling. If we've defined that and everybody who's part of the process understands it, it makes it easy to say, does this person fit who we are and do we all in the same room understand what we are and and whether this person is a potential fit for us. I I think you have to have that defined.
David Konecky:And I also think, Simon, to your point that within the USTA, there's different cultures. Right? So for example, and, you know, again, I'm just sort of here, but the accounting culture, I would argue, is different than your culture, right, at at the at the campus. So, you know They're a
Simon Gale:lot smarter. That's for sure.
David Konecky:We'll start with them. I don't know, Sami. You're a pretty smart guy. But I think, you know, there's an organizational culture, and then there's a culture within departments. So it's really important that the individual that you hire fits within your culture within the department.
David Konecky:Now working with Simon, you know, I know what Simon looks for for, you know, for a candidate, and and Simon and I sort of have got to the point where I think, you know, we really feed off each other very well. So then when I work with, let's say, you know, I use accounting. When I work with the accounting department, I know what they're looking for, which is different than what Simon is looking for. So then my approach has to shift and change. So I think that's why, you know, as HR representatives, we have to be flexible and nimble to understand that what people manage are looking for could be different between the
Kim Bastable:And, you know, we interviewed early in this podcast in season one. We did an interview with Tim Elmore who talks a lot about generations working together and and how there are multiple generations in the workforce these days. So how do you counsel or, you know, look at that, approach that? Do you do you try to, you know, encourage departments to have multiple generations or what are your thoughts?
David Konecky:I think, you know, diversity is really important in in any organization and different ways of thinking is is critical to an organization and department success. You know, when you talk about generations, the the generation the younger generation now is what I'm finding essentially is, you know, immediate satisfaction. Right? In the sense of, you know, what's next? They come into a position.
David Konecky:What's next? How do I get to that director level as quickly as I possibly can? Right? And that's okay. You know, so then we have to shift our thinking and shift our marketing to sort of show folks a career path where they can get to the level where they wanna be.
David Konecky:The other gen the, you know, the the generations maybe, you know, the millennials or or gen x or whichever generation is a little bit older. That group, you know, maybe was a little more patient and realizing, you know, things take it takes time to get to that next level. So, you know, for that generation, the motivators are a little bit different. So to me, it's trying to find the motivation for the individual. Individual and then as we're interviewing folks, help that individual see why the USTA is the right fit for that person.
David Konecky:So I think each it's not, you know, one size fits all. So if
Simon Gale:I'm if I'm at a a smaller smaller club, the importance of being able to present our our structure and show where you are in our team and what it takes to move forward is something that's being presented more clearly to a younger generation who's coming in and saying, that's great. I'm happy to start here as a staff pro, but I want to be the director in eight years. How do I get there? I see that in our interview process. We get a lot of that and the importance of presenting where they are and where they can go and how they get there has become more and more critical, especially given our biggest focus I think as managers is retention.
Simon Gale:I don't want a pro to leave within a year or two, which is kind of industry averages eighteen months to two years. How do I get them to stay three to five years, which I I can get better value out of them, but I also can help develop them and help my retention issue because I don't wanna spend all my time hiring. I wanna actually run the business. So I've noticed that and it sounds like that's what you're saying as well is important.
David Konecky:Yeah. A 100%. And and also as a club or as an organization, you have to look at what separates you from the competition. Right? And then lean into that.
David Konecky:Like, for example, if you're a club and you have high salaries, you wanna lead in lean in lean into that high salary as a a marketing point. Right? If your salaries aren't as high and but you have great benefits or you have, you know, programs that are already set up where, you know, pros don't have to come in with their own clients, you know, you then wanna lean into that. So I think, you know, it's really important to look at where you are in terms of, like, you know, how you differentiate yourself from the competition and lean into that during the interview process and market that to the candidates. Because candidates, you know, are gonna wanna know you're not also interviewing them, they're interviewing you.
David Konecky:Right? Because since there is a shortage, that means there's a lot of other opportunities for the candidates to go to different clubs or different organizations to, you know, essentially bring their skill set.
Kim Bastable:So we mentioned you mentioned before we got on on the recording that you have just hired several temporary employees for the US Open. How is that experience different when you interview, and would there be different interview structures for different types of employees maybe for a maintenance staff person versus a head pro? I'm just curious how you approach different situations.
David Konecky:Yeah. So we just came off the US Open, really successful event. Had over a million fans for the first time, which was was really cool. Our team hires 2,300 staff members, seasonal staff members to work the US Open. It is a very different experience where, you know, it is 2,300 people.
David Konecky:You have to then interview, like, 6,000 people to get the 2,300 that you want. Bring a seasonal recruitment team that I bring on to help me with that project. And, you know, to your point, Kim, like, you know, the interviews are very different. And as we're talking earlier in the in the podcast, you know, we're talking about different steps of the interview process, right, from a a virtual interview to then an encore interview. For these jobs, you know, we're doing pretty much like a a thirty to forty five minute interview and then trying to make a decision on somebody.
David Konecky:And, you know, there are different types of roles. Right? So there's the front facing roles such as guest services and then the back of house roles such as maintenance and facilities. And, you know, those people, the candidates are are very different in terms of what they're looking for. But, know, the the principles stay the same in the sense of we want to make sure the person is a culture fit for the US Open.
David Konecky:Wanna make sure the person understands that, you know, they're gonna work every day for three weeks. And then also, we wanna make sure that, you know, the individual, you know, basically is getting something out of it as well. We don't want this to be a one-sided relationship. If the person is there to for financial reasons, we wanna, you know, express to them obviously that they'll, you know, get overtime and and they'll be able to make a a a fair amount of money in a short period of time. If the person is there for growth and they're, you know, have a sports management degree, we wanna express to them that this having the US Open on their resume is, you know, gonna be, you know, a real differentiator and and separate them from the competition for, you know, as they move forward.
David Konecky:And, you know, we have people who come back year after year for the last forty years because they love the event, and then we have people who stay one year, do a great job, and then get a full time job. So it's, you know, a a really cool thing to be a part of. I've been doing it for thirteen years to sort of see all those fans come through the gates and, you know, the staff that we hire, you know, you know, help and and support them is is something I'm very proud of.
Kim Bastable:Very interesting. I think that's a unique unique thing. I'm sure there's other big events that do the same thing, but it's great to hear the US Open had a million fans as well. So okay. So, Dave, now we need to talk about some of the the the tough parts.
Kim Bastable:What are the things we should stay away from? Can you give some tips of those, like, what's maybe slightly illegal to ask, or what are the things that we just want to avoid?
David Konecky:So I think there's two different questions there from a legality standpoint. We just wanna stick to the job. Right? Stick to the job. We don't wanna ask too personal questions.
David Konecky:We don't wanna know how old someone is. We don't wanna know where they live. We don't wanna know how they're getting to work just if they can get to work. You know, those are just, you know, I think a rule of thumb is just stick to the job description and the job as you go through the process. Right?
David Konecky:But with that said, as an individual is on as you're interviewing someone, you also want to look at things such as their body language. Right? Do they seem engaged in the interview? Are they excited about the opportunity? Are they paying attention to you?
David Konecky:Right? I mentioned before, you're taking an interview from a car, you know, with the phone and and then talking to their friend as they're talking to you. That's, you know, really that's a red flag. Are they the questions the behavioral questions that you ask, you know, are there answers appropriate for your workplace? So, like, for example, if you say to someone, you know, talk to me about a conflict that you have with a coworker and they said, as I used the example previously, they said they got into an argument and then they didn't talk to the person.
David Konecky:Now that means there's a good chance when this person comes to you that when they get to have a conflict, they're gonna be argumentative and then it's gonna be more work for you as an employer to try to, you know, navigate their relationships. Now do you wanna deal with that? And then you have to balance it. The person's a really good pro. Does something like that outweigh, you know, their skill set?
David Konecky:And to me, it does because to me, I think, you know, we can find even though there is a shortage, we can find pros that can do the job. But and Simon, you could speak to this, you know, but, you know, in my opinion, I I would rather deal with someone and work with someone that's more flexible and and understanding rather than someone that's, you know, has that top side personality. What do you
Simon Gale:Yeah. I think for sure, I wanna hire for culture and character and work ethic and all those sort of things first.
David Konecky:Mhmm.
Simon Gale:And the assumption is you're good at teaching tennis. Yep. And if there's some shortcomings, we can develop you up. But I can't teach you character and manners and communication skills and turning up on time. I can't teach you that.
Simon Gale:But I can teach you how to run a better drill. And then I've seen that here. And and sometimes we've made the mistake of hiring for talent and quite often it doesn't work out and you learn over twenty years or thirty years of doing this that stick to stick to what works and then train up if you need to. So I would agree.
Kim Bastable:So what is the next step once you get them hired for regarding onboarding? Do you have some some tips on how to onboard well? Because we know that that this research kinda shows the first ninety days are very important to influence an employee. And as you said, there's a shortage, so they might go somewhere else. What what are those important onboarding processes that would make a successful hire?
David Konecky:Yeah. So I would even argue the first week is is critical in the sense that, you know, that's the you'll have one time to make a first impression. Right? And we wanna make sure when someone comes on board that, you know, we come across as an organization organized, clear, and essentially, give as much information as we can, but spread that information out because we wanna make sure they retain the information. Right?
David Konecky:If you give if you bombard someone with information over the first few days, they're probably not gonna retain a lot. So we wanna make sure the onboarding is spread out where they, you know, get as much as they can, but they could retain most of it. Also, when an individual starts, I think it's important to have some social activities with them. Right? Take them to lunch.
David Konecky:Get you know, have some time where folks meet with, you know, the other members of the team so they get to know each other. I think that's really critical. Speak talk to them about the benefits of the organization. Right? If there's medical and dental, you wanna spend some time with those people over the first, you know, few weeks to go through what those what those plans look like, and that's really important.
David Konecky:But really, it's just making sure the individual feels comfortable in giving them information that will help them be successful moving forward. Maybe even, like, what we do also is give some, I guess, swag to the folks. Right? If there's, you know, USTA, we give some USA shirts and and some some stuff to sort of help people feel welcome. I think that's important as well because, again, it's it's a welcoming committee.
David Konecky:We want people to feel like they're part of something special now. So there's a lot of different things we can do or or you can do to to really help someone feel comfortable and and excited to to be with you.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. There's a section in the course that I I talk about, one of the resources I use that just talks about really making it very memorable. There was a a story that's in the book about John Deere and how they hire and and they make the person, you know, feel just an amazing sense of part of the company on on even day one. So, yeah, I think that's something that I I like that you mentioned go to lunch. I like the people parts of it.
Kim Bastable:It's not just about the task. Let's just show you where the ball card is and get you ready to teach or, you know, this is how you turn in your hours or the details. So I I love those suggestions on on just getting to know the person.
Simon Gale:Yep. And I would add to that too, over the years the importance of having it mapped out and it's actually scheduled. So our first 90, there's a lot of scheduled interactions and even if it's social, it's scheduled. When you arrive, this is your first ninety days, Not just on core and HR but the social, the lunches, the meeting of the key people you need to know because very quickly, like you said Kim, it becomes here's where the ball cuts are, here's where you enter your hours and ninety days has gone quickly and you're like, I missed opportunities to engage with this person. So we've found if it's not in your calendar and is somebody actually assigned to this person, so I'll take somebody and assign them almost like a buddy for ninety days.
Simon Gale:And their job is to check-in every day even if it's a stand two minute check-in. How are doing? Any questions? How can we help you? Little things like that just make that that employee integrate much quicker.
Simon Gale:Alright. So we've talked a lot about hiring and things to do to make people feel welcome and and be successful. But we also know, Dave, and and we've been through this a few times is that sometimes it doesn't work out. And I look back at how managing letting someone go versus say what I've learned working for the USTA. What are some of the steps?
Simon Gale:I'm I'm thinking more from a protecting myself as a as a small club owner or a director who's not got a HR team. What are some of the things I need to do to protect myself from from an employee who I I let go say inappropriately or not covering my bases?
David Konecky:Course, I think documenting is key, you know, if you're finding that there are multiple issues with an employee. Even if it's as easy as just writing writing yourself an email, sending yourself an email when there are issues with the employee, documenting is really important. Also, we wanna try to use the approach of a progressive disciplinary approach. So what that means essentially is, you know, first you wanna start out with counseling. Right?
David Konecky:Where if you see an employee doing something that maybe, you know, doesn't fit, you know, what you're looking at that employee to do, you wanna have the conversation. You know, let's use lateness as an example just because it's easy. If you're seeing someone is coming in late, you wanna, you know, talk to the person and ask them why they're coming in late. See if there's something going on that you could help with and be genuine in terms of caring about that individual because that's really important. And then if, you know, after the conversation, if you're seeing something that if you're seeing lateness persist, you know, then you wanna, you know, have more of a maybe a verbal warning where you're saying, alright.
David Konecky:We spoke about this. It still isn't getting better. You know you know, this is now like a verbal warning. But even with the verbal warning, you still wanna write yourself an email to say that you've given a verbal warning. And then if it continues, maybe a a a written final warning.
David Konecky:Right? So when the time comes, if you do have to let the person go, you now spoke to them at least four or five different times about the same thing, and it's not a surprise when, you know, if you do have to let the individual go. So that's that's kind of the approach. And also be very honest on all reviews. You know, sometimes what I see is that folks maybe don't wanna have difficult conversations, so their reviews would maybe skew more positive.
David Konecky:But in reality, there are challenges. So, you know, the difficult conversation is necessary. So that would be, I think, a little bit of advice I would
Simon Gale:And is it important too with those that documentation that some of that is shared with the employees? So if I had a meeting and I summarize it, is it shared with them so there's some sort of acknowledgment so that that it shows that this was not just my thoughts, it was actually agreed upon or these are the outcomes of our meeting?
David Konecky:Yeah. I think that's really important and it doesn't necessarily have to be what you write yourself is what you share with the employee. But I think there should be some, you know, communication with the employee, you know, after a meeting to express, hey, this is what we spoke about. The expectation is, you know, you you, you know, call in before, you know, if you're running late, you know, but, you know, we agreed moving forward that this is how, you know, you're gonna change the behavior. I think that's key when you're having discussions is get agreement.
David Konecky:Don't be confrontational with the discussions or or combative, but have the employee agree moving forward that their behavior will change so then you could point back to that if it doesn't change. And you could say to the employee, hey, remember last time we spoke, we agreed that you were gonna call prior to being late and you didn't. Why? You know, this is something we agreed on. So now you're putting the onus on the employee and, you know, I think that's really important to get buy in.
Kim Bastable:Is there an amount of time that you might let pass? You know, how how long do you wait? Do you have a general thought on that?
David Konecky:I think also it depends on the scenario. It's it's employee relations is is gray sometimes. Right? Where what you wanna do is sort of read the situation and get a sense of maybe there is a valid reason in this person. Right?
David Konecky:And maybe it you know, you wanna try to work with the person, try to figure out, you know, a way to to overcome these hurdles. But in terms of time, if you know that this isn't gonna be a fit or a match, I think it's important to move fairly quickly because, you know, it's it's not a match for you and there's a good chance not to be a match for the person either. So, you know, you wanna make sure the person and you are on the same page moving forward.
Simon Gale:Dave, just changing direction a little bit with employee classifications. It's a it's it's a long standing I don't even know if it's a debate, but there's division within our industry over October or w two. How do you separate, say, for the tennis pro? And maybe it applies across the board, but how do you separate that in the tennis industry? And, you know, we're all w twos, but how do you separate that?
Simon Gale:Because there is tremendous disparity in our industry between some places at ten ninety nine, they're getting paid cash, there's places that are w two, their taxes are taken out. Where do you stand on that or what what's your understanding?
David Konecky:Yeah. I think every situation is different from the club's perspective. For us, you know, w two in terms of their our employees And I like that because, you know, then there's benefits that folks can receive. Right? So if there are employees, they then are eligible for medical and dental and able to get vacation sick time, paid holiday time, you know, and and not necessarily independent contractor.
David Konecky:So there's something to be said, and there's also more feeling of belonging, I think, if someone is employee of the USTA rather than an independent contract or an employee of any club, not just USTA, rather than independent contract. So so to me, I I like the employee side of things if possible, because there is, you know, more belonging, maybe even also more chance that individual stay longer because they are an independent contractor. So so I I I like that approach if if if you're able to do that.
Kim Bastable:So is there just a one or two things that maybe we've left out of this conversation that that you would provide as advice? I mean, we've tried to cover many bases, but where have we missed or what suggestions might you offer that the listener needs?
David Konecky:I don't want people to forget the most important part when interviewing and that's trusting your gut. I think trusting your gut is really important as you're going through an interview. If you're feeling a little hesitant, then there's a reason why you're feeling hesitant, and then you have to you should explore that. And also the second piece is, especially when you're being pros, it's really important that you see the pro on court. I don't think we touched on that as much as maybe we could have.
David Konecky:You know, there's one thing to to meet with a pro or or someone for thirty minutes, but see the person on court and how they're interacting with the patrons and the guests and clients, I think, is another level. And, you know, someone might say all the right things in, you know, a thirty minute virtual interview, but when they get on court, they're not maybe connecting with the with the clients as much, and I think that's even more important than than thirty minute visit. But then there's the other side too. Right? If you're a little hesitant and not sure why you're feeling a little hesitant, maybe you bring the person for an on court visit, an on-site visit, and then you see that, wait a minute, this person is really, really good.
David Konecky:So, you know, it can go both ways, but I think there should always be multiple steps in the interview process prior to selecting someone to to start with you.
Kim Bastable:That's excellent advice. I'm glad we mentioned that because I like the trust your gut thing. I think there's a feel Yeah. A feel about a situation. And one of the things I talk about in the UF course is that we we make sure that I have them do a video interview, and I make sure they have, like, proper lighting and and maybe professional, attire, like you said, maybe to take it serious just for a video submission with answers to questions.
Kim Bastable:So do you have any other advice like that if they're asked to do a video sub submission? Do you ask for that in in your hiring?
David Konecky:So we don't ask for video submission, but we do the virtual interviews. I think as you're going through those virtual interviews, that that's the time where you look for the thing the components that you're talking about, Kim, in terms of professionalism, lighting, taking the jobs the interview serious. And then if that person passes that step, then we bring them on on on-site. Right? So not everyone that we interview virtually, we bring on-site.
David Konecky:They have to be, you know, a fit from that perspective.
Kim Bastable:Right. Simon, any other final thoughts you have after just hearing hearing this and all your ups and downs with hiring and sadly probably firing?
Simon Gale:Yeah. Look, it's thirty years I've been trying to get this right and still working on it. I I I think it evolves and technology has been tremendously helpful to do virtual interviews. We just started doing some video requests like to specific questions and we learn a lot about that body language and how they answer and can they actually answer a question versus just talking about themselves. So I think all these things are evolving, but I think Dave's shed some light on a lot of things that we all wonder if we're doing it right or are we approaching this right.
Simon Gale:And I think this has confirmed a few things for people and hopefully open their eyes to a couple of ideas moving forward. Some great takeaways and really appreciate you taking the time to to answer our questions today, Dave.
David Konecky:Oh, this is great. I had a lot of fun. You know, hopefully, we could do this again. And I appreciate you thinking of me as as someone that could actually give some advice and and be helpful. So thank you for that.
Kim Bastable:Oh, absolutely. We we appreciate your time, and we know the listeners are because this is the one thing I hear a lot about that they are really misunderstanding and don't don't understand the hiring and the it's something a new leader has never likely done. So so we do need to hold their hand a little bit. So thank you for your time. That's all we have for you today on Racquet Fuel.
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