No Fear Leadership - Lessons from Jo Wallen
Welcome to Racquet Fuel, where we launch into great conversations and share powerful tools to help you become a stronger rackets leader. Your hosts are Kim Bastable, a former All American tennis player and now the director of tennis management at the University of Florida. And Simon Gale, the USTA senior director of Racquet Sports Development. Today on Racquet Fuel, there's an element of the unknown in every new leadership role and nearly everyone has questions about how prepared they are. Simon and Kim unpack this challenge today with industry leader, Jo Wallen, who shares her inspiring leadership story and her desire to get 1% better each day and let the rest take care of itself.
Episode Narration:Now, here's Kim and Simon.
Kim Bastable:Welcome to Racquet Fuel. I'm Kim Bastable, and I'm here today again with Simon Gale. Simon, how are you doing today?
Simon Gale:I am super excited to be interviewing our our special guest today. It's someone I I've worked with for quite a few years now, and I think it's a a great story and excited for people to hear it.
Kim Bastable:Well, we do. We have Jo Wallen, and she is general manager of the National Campus at USTA. But more than that, I think our discussion today is just on leadership. She is an excellent example of someone who has grown into a strong leader, inspiring, someone we need to learn from. And I think we're gonna have a a sort of a lively discussion, including Simon in this, on what does it take to get to a leadership position?
Kim Bastable:What are the elements that we need to learn? Maybe we can learn from others versus reinvent the wheel. So this is an exciting time to just cover leadership and the path to leadership. So, Jo, thank you for being here. We welcome you to Racquet Fuel.
Jo Wallen:Thank you. I'm excited too. I'm excited to speak to you guys and learn from you also.
Simon Gale:So, Joe, I'm gonna start off with a compliment, which, Kim, just so you know, we kind of had a running joke about giving each other compliments. So Joe's done a tremendous job since coming into the role as as general manager of the campus. And I'd already been here a year before she she came from community tennis, and she'll explain this story better, but came down and became the general manager. So we've been through a lot together, and I've sat back and watched as as the campus has grown and elevated its standards. And it all it's all because of Joe's vision and the work she's put in, and and she's a tremendously hard worker.
Simon Gale:And so, Joe, thanks for joining us and and and excited to hear your story and everybody else to hear it. But I want you to tell us a little bit about your transition from playing on the pro tour, moving into the club industry and ending up in this role today. So could you just share that with us?
Jo Wallen:Of course. And first of all, thank you for the compliment, Simon. It is nice to hear that. I say we've worked together for some good years, and I think having a Commonwealth background originally from England helps us with our sense of humor with each other and brutal honesty in good and bad sometimes that we've had it. So I think that it starts actually a little bit before I started playing pro, and I think that part of my story starts when I was actually four years old.
Jo Wallen:I won't go into it too much, but I picked up a racket, and I broke the window with the first ball I ever hit. And it didn't just crack it. It literally broke it. And from there, I was hooked. I was just like, oh my gosh.
Jo Wallen:I just I was hooked on tennis. I wanted to play, and every day after school, I would come back and hit on a wall by myself. And I just knew that ever since I was that age, I've wanted nothing more than to be in tennis. And when I was four, I think every four year old or five year old, six year old's dream, 12 year old is to be number one tennis player in the world. And so that's all I've ever really known is tennis.
Jo Wallen:And so I moved from England when I was 12 and took a scholarship to Boletier Tennis Academy. And it was a very hard decision for my family because they're sending their 12 year old daughter across the world to live by themselves in an academy. And I think that's part of my story too with what I had to endure at Boletier's. It was the school of hard knocks then. It was not IMG.
Jo Wallen:It was Boletary Tennis Academy. And having to really learn to be self sufficient by myself at 12 years old is very hard to do. And so I became very self reliant at a very young age. And then I played on the tour, and for people thinking of, like, what does that mean? We've never heard of her.
Jo Wallen:You wouldn't have heard of me because in the layman's terms of tennis, and McEnroe says it whether he's right or wrong, it's the journey person and probably the failed tennis player that got to two fifty in the world that didn't make it. Right? And I think defining making it is very important of how we define making it on the tour. Making it as in making money and making a living out of it, yes, I failed drastically. Like, put myself in huge financial trouble, put my parents in huge financial trouble for that.
Jo Wallen:But I always, as I said, I knew nothing but I wanted to be in tennis. And so when I I played until I was about 27, and I as I said, I was just trying to reach that dream. And it's tennis on the tour can be like a drug because you get those you get that one win where you beat someone top 100 or you're playing someone top 50 in the world and you're having set points and you're just losing. It's just such a hard breakthrough. But I got hurt pretty I got hurt.
Jo Wallen:I tore my meniscus, and from that, I got a blood clot in my leg. And I think it was God kind of telling me it was time to stop. And I was starting to get really frustrated because I just didn't have that breakthrough. So I basically, the chorea stopped itself because I had to stop. And I was like, okay.
Jo Wallen:Well, I know what my next move is. I'm going into coaching. That's the obvious choice. Right? So I started coaching at the Colony down in Longboat Key, which arguably at the time was rated the number one beach and tennis resort in the country, and really just sat and learned as much about coaching as I could from the the director of tennis there.
Jo Wallen:And I think as soon as I quit playing, I started getting all my coaching certifications, so I got everything as quick as I could. And after one year, I was I loved the resort, like, guest coaching lifestyle, but I didn't like having to work weekends and give up holidays and all that kind of stuff. And I wanted a little bit more. And just so happened that someone I was working with at the Colony, they said to me, hey. There's a job opening in Lexington, Kentucky.
Jo Wallen:So a girl from England coming over to The States, going to Florida, and then going to Lexington, there was, no connection. But there was a connection because I played the pro circuit tournament there. And it was one of the places that I loved going to. It was such a good community, and it was one of my favorite tournaments. And so I was like, sure.
Jo Wallen:I'll I'll take I'll apply for the job, and I got it, and I became the director of junior tennis. So when I was there, got more of my coaching certifications, became a UCA high performance coach, got my USPTA, and did that for about four years. And so, again, with coaching, whenever I'd gone to tournaments and I traveled around the world, whether it was pro tournament twenty fives, Wimbledon, doesn't matter what it was, I would always watch the other coaches, and I would learn from them. So even though when I was playing, I didn't have coaching experience. I was watching the good and the bad.
Jo Wallen:And then one day, I randomly, I say this, got thrown into club management. We were pros came to me and said that something dodgy was going on with their $4.00 1 k money, and they wanted me to go check it out. So I went and checked it out, found out mine wasn't there, and I went to the ownership group. And the next day, the GM was no longer there, and they asked me to be interim GM. And I was like, okay.
Jo Wallen:How am I doing this? What am I doing? I I mean, you just get thrown from a tennis pro, and I was felt like I was a good teaching pro into this world of management and really having to learn from that. So it's a journey that's been I've known since I was four I've wanted to stay in the tennis world, but everything has kind of been thrown my way, and I've had to learn as I've gone in in those in every single realm, whether it was coaching and then management. That's kind of been the journey.
Simon Gale:So Joe, we've talked about quite often. I mean, it's an amazing story. Right? And and seems like everyone we talk to, Kim, has a a similar type story of working it out, making it up as you go along, and and you kinda got steered in these directions and sometimes it wasn't necessarily planned. But we've also talked a lot about tennis is an incredibly individual sport and you grew up, it was all about you and your ranking and where you're heading.
Simon Gale:And you may have been with a team of young players at at Volataris, but it's still all about your progression. And then you come into this team environment as a manager and a leader. And do some people struggle with that transition of all about me to now it's all about my team and waking up thinking about everybody else? How did you find that transition when you kinda got thrown into it?
Jo Wallen:It's a good question. I've actually never been asked that question because I think for me, because of some of my past experience, and probably it's the reason I didn't make top 100, was because it was not all about me all the time. I probably didn't focus on me enough. And, you know, throughout my career, my dad's parents were helping me. And so I had to help my parents with their business while I was still trying to play.
Jo Wallen:So that's actually probably one of the reasons that, as I said, I look back and I didn't make top 100 because I it wasn't all about me. But when you come into a leadership, it becomes really, like, maybe 10% about you and 90% about everybody else and the team you build around you. I have no problem saying and building my team that I want people that are way smarter than me all around, and that's not difficult. And, Simon, that's another compliment to you, by the way, like, backhandedly. But, like, I have, like, a team around me that's so smart that I really need to keep elevating them that then will help elevate me.
Jo Wallen:So it it is challenging to do, and I think that it depends on your upbringing and, you know, how just how you've been brought up to yes. It's all about you playing, but then when you go into, like, the real world, then you have to start thinking about other people. So it wasn't that hard a transition because, as I said, I never have not been the sort of person that's been it's all about me. I've I've felt like I've always given to others throughout my whole career.
Kim Bastable:But you can probably see how in our industry that generally might be a challenge for us.
Jo Wallen:100%. I mean, we we see it all the time when we're interviewing people. Right? We see it. We have them talk about themselves, and it's about them.
Jo Wallen:I can do this. I can can do that. And it's really that humbleness of being willing to say, this is actually what I don't know. So, therefore, you have to surround yourself with people that do know. And I think sometimes that's hard to come in as being a former pro player.
Jo Wallen:You think you know and you think you're really good and really being able to stay humble and to be able to say, actually, these are my skills that I actually am good at, but I need help with all the other skills.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. And even once you're in the leadership role, it's the, you know, maybe creeping back and the desire to take credit for what all the people in your team have done and, you know, it's the, you know, I won this trophy or we won this trophy kind of thing. And I think we just it's hard because we are very competitive and somewhat singular people as players. And so it's it's good to hear that maybe the explanation of why you've why you've done very well. So let's let's go into how did you end up at the USTA.
Kim Bastable:What were the steps that did you get plucked, or did you look for that, or what was that transition?
Jo Wallen:You know, I mean, when I was in Lexington, I was a junior program director, then I said I got thrown into club management. And I think during those years, I remember the first day when they said, can you do this? And I was like, okay. I can do this, but I can't do this. I'm gonna need help with this.
Jo Wallen:And I think that I felt in Lexington, I you know, basically, was told that I had a year to turn the club around financially. Otherwise, they would have to sell it. That's how bad a shape they were in financially. You know, they only just sold it about six months ago. They they sold the club.
Jo Wallen:So it's been there for, you know, eleven, twelve, fifteen years after I took it over. But I think what was happening there is that I felt like I did as much as I could in the club to grow the club, and then I'd started going into the community to really reach out to the community, work with an NJTL. I actually had a young lady who started an NJTL there, and I helped support her start it. And then we'd gone into churches and did church leagues. And I just felt that, like, my growth had been stunted.
Jo Wallen:I could not help Lexington anymore. So I was kinda getting bored because I feel like I'm a lifelong learner. And when I get bored, it's not probably a good thing. So then I started looking for jobs, in different places. And US, obviously, the national campus was being built.
Jo Wallen:I applied for the the job that I currently have, and I didn't get it, just say that. And I was told I probably wouldn't get it, which is an interesting conversation too. But I kept applying for different jobs, and the director of adult competition came up, and that was it. Like, it was tournament and wheelchair. And again, I was very honest, like, look, I can do the adult side, the tournaments, that's that's okay.
Jo Wallen:I don't know anything about wheelchair. So really spent, like, three years deep diving into wheelchair tennis. And so that's kind of how I got into USCA. Was out boredom where I felt like I couldn't excel anymore with the job that I was doing and that I wanted to make a larger impact across the country. And so that's where I joined USTA within that role.
Simon Gale:So, Joe, when you transitioned from from adult and wheelchair into the role of of GM for the campus, there was there was there's always a lot of work to be done. Right? I mean, the campus was in its infancy stages still and and and we're only seven years old, so there's still a lot more to be done. The business is still kinda young and we're working things out. But when people ask me about the role here, I often say, and Kim's heard me say this a lot, there's no other job that's the same that you transition from and say, I'm just gonna take what I did there and apply it to the campus.
Simon Gale:The campus is so unique with its mission based goals as well as trying to, you know, make revenue and be what it is. So there's a lot of moving parts. So when you first transitioned into that leadership role, what was the process you kind of went through for assessing where it was and then coming up with a vision? Because it can be quite overwhelming to just to come in and start this job.
Jo Wallen:Sure. I mean, I think for me, I was looking, you know, at the campus, and as you said, was a massive lift to get the campus opened. Right? The building, all that all everything hiring and not really knowing what it was gonna be about. But I thought there was a lot of opportunity to enhance.
Jo Wallen:So when the opportunity presented itself and someone said, what do wanna do? I'm like, I want I want the campus. And I think that the time that I spent in my other role really prepared prepared me really well for this role because I think it's imperative for this role at campus, like you said, it's like no other facility. You have to understand what what the USTA is. Right?
Jo Wallen:You've gotta understand that you have the board. You have the committees, the sections. You know, USC is a very complex organization. So I think what I learned from being director of adult comp and wheelchair really helped me understand, like, what the campus needed. But I think for the first year, I just sat and listened to everybody and I watched.
Jo Wallen:Right? I really I don't believe you should go into any position and just say, we are gonna do this, this, and this. Right? You have to almost go, like, on a listening tour and really understand what is happening. I mean, the first day I had multiple people come up and go, hey.
Jo Wallen:Like, can I get a raise? I was like, woah. Hold on a second. Like, I just need to know what's happening. Right?
Jo Wallen:So the first year, I think you're just kind of, like, trying to understand the lay of the land. And then I think that, you know, we started going, okay. This is kind of what we need for a structure. And we we went through changes. We went through a lot of staff changes, good or bad with that.
Jo Wallen:And I kind of put into process, you know, I'll go to the the strategic question in a minute, but really, there was not a lot of processes in place. And so people felt like they didn't sometimes know what they were doing. So I kind of said, look, we've got to trust the process and then we trust people. And then I realized there weren't processes in place. So we tried to make a lot of processes and then we train the people on the processes.
Jo Wallen:Right? So therefore, when something goes wrong, I always ask myself, okay. What broke down? What was the first thing? Did we not what don't we have in place?
Jo Wallen:Right? So it never blames anybody else. It kind of puts the blame on me. So if there's not a process in place, that's on me, and it's on my leadership team. So then I'm like, okay, guys.
Jo Wallen:We need to do that. And then we gotta make sure everyone's trained. But as what as you said, like, it's a difficult situation in camps because we're expected to, you know, lead the mission as the USTA, and we're also expected to kind of break even with what we're doing on the campus. So I think what we did is we kind of took a including leadership, we took a holistic look of, like, what we were each doing in our areas. Then we went through a process of figuring out what we actually wanted to do and what we needed to do as a campus.
Jo Wallen:And then we put together, like, a strategic plan for over five years. But that plan included like, it has to include staff requests. Right? If we wanna do something or we need to grow our marketing, we didn't have a marketing So we thought that was massively important to have a marketing plan and that kind of whole pillar. So to do that, we can't just say, okay.
Jo Wallen:I'm gonna hire three people to run this department, and this is what it's gonna cost. We have to put a request in by a certain amount of time. The headcount request has to be approved. The budget has to be approved. And at any time, they can say no.
Jo Wallen:So you've gotta, like, navigate that. So it's it was a really long process. It took us about a year to do it, and you have to navigate all those different things. So that's one of the biggest difference about being like from a club I came from or you, Simon, where we had the ability to say this is what we need and one person approve it. It's a whole process at USCA.
Jo Wallen:So you really have to be able to navigate people and be able to persuade people and show them what your vision is for them to actually engage, approve it, buy it.
Simon Gale:Yeah. I think the forecasting and the ability to plan out and have a vision well in advance because you have to go through this system whereas a smaller business may not have as many resources as say we have here, but can be much more nimble and you can make changes quickly and adapt your structure very quickly. That's a real challenge here and I think you have to plan and have a vision well in advance in order to be able to make things happen. So that's, I would agree 100%.
Jo Wallen:You said plan and vision, you forgot one word, there's another P, patience.
Kim Bastable:I was actually gonna say patience is on my list of things. Was like, you're a lifelong learner, you know, not self focused, do the listening and watching tour, and then patience. Boy, you guys, I mean, this is one of the things we talk about in the UF course where people coming through leadership is there are so many different types of clubs or, you know, businesses that we have in the industry, and it takes a different skill set for each. And you you obviously noted that the patience is a great important piece of all leaders, but it might come into play a bit more in a bigger organization. I think public parks are always gonna be the ones that have to go through the hoops, and it's way tougher to get past the city councils and the park and rec boards than potentially those, like you say, nimble clubs.
Kim Bastable:That's that's great background. I would like to ask you. You mentioned being 12 years old and at Voltary by yourself. I'm guessing you were a bit fearful at that time. I can't imagine that you weren't unless you're a very strong 12 year old, stronger than I.
Kim Bastable:What other things have been, like, just a little bit scary in your road? What would you admit to being like, just, I wonder if I can? Because I think we all have a bit of a impostor syndrome, and I think it's good to to to share those things so that everybody realizes that it's a part of
Jo Wallen:it. I think and Simon knows this all too well, and I've changed my I've changed my speech on this a little bit. I don't know whether when I was talking about my career, you noticed I never once said college or education because I did not go to college. And I finished high school. My last two years was online.
Jo Wallen:So really, I went through tenth grade, let's be honest, because the last two years online was just to get through. And so I think for me, I've always and it's so funny. I would never say impostor syndrome. I would just say a lack of confidence in myself when we're talking about like, you're talking about, okay. You need to have this education.
Jo Wallen:I mean, when I applied for this job and any job, it said college degree, you know, required. And I just was like, look. I don't have it, but this is my experience. And I've almost said, like, before, and I will say it again here, I'm the dumbest person on academically probably USCA has ever hired because I barely finished high school. I have that diploma, but I barely finished it.
Jo Wallen:But I don't think, for me, it's part of my story, but it doesn't define who I am. But I think it it has it has helped me because everything I've had to learn, I've had to learn myself. I've had to be pretty savvy, and I've had to be, you know, very resourceful with what I've had to learn. And even when I was, like, trying to play pro, my dad was working, and he said to me, hey. I need to sell on eBay.
Jo Wallen:And I was like, okay. Like, because he was doing he was at auctions, and he was like, need to sell on eBay. I'm like, okay. He's like, you need to figure it out for me. We didn't even have a laptop.
Jo Wallen:We didn't have a computer. Right? And so my dad someone gave me a laptop. I didn't know how to type. I'd never taken typing classes.
Jo Wallen:And my dad's like, okay. Like, I was like, dad, we need an email. So, obviously, the the email at the time was either AOL or it was Hotmail. And I remember this. I was like, dad, we've I've got to get this Hotmail.
Jo Wallen:He goes, you can't have Hotmail. It sounds like a porn site. That's what he said to me. And I was like, dad, no. That's like the sir that's the service.
Jo Wallen:It's not what it is. And I figured out, I went and bought it. And back when eBay started, they didn't have the templates they have now. The HTML that you have to do. So if you wanted to write something in color, you have to write HTML code.
Jo Wallen:You actually had to do the coding for it. So I went and found a book at the store, and it was how to visually learn. They had books for dummies and visually learning. And I always liked the visual learning. It helped me more than the dummies one.
Jo Wallen:And I literally wrote all the descriptions, put all the pictures on of everything, figured out how to download pictures, upload pictures. Like, I didn't know how to do it, size it all, and I learned that all by myself. And then I started coaching and teaching all the other people that were doing auctions. I'm like, your picture's too big. You size it.
Jo Wallen:So it's coming up like, you know, one little thing like that like that's tiny is coming up across the whole screen. So I've had to be very resourceful. So like when we talk about, okay, you gotta hire people or budgeting, I'm like, okay. What do I do? I'm gonna go, you know, I'm gonna go figure this out myself.
Jo Wallen:So I think that to me, it's the impostor syndrome is that lack of education, but it hasn't defined me. It's made me really strong. So I think the fear of some of it is the education, but then I actually sometimes I look at people that have, like, very high education, and I think, gosh. What did they learn in school? Because and I'm not saying anything against it because but I'm like, some of the common sense has gone where I think I've got a lot of common sense, and I'm very resourceful because of my lack of, I say, education from actually on a piece of paper.
Jo Wallen:So I think that to me is what I've been fearful for, but now I'm saying it's it has not defined me. It's it's part of my story.
Kim Bastable:I love that. Very inspiring.
Simon Gale:Well, sounds like to me too that you're this constant problem solving that's going on, you know, whether when you were younger and and the story you just shared to what you do today. That there's there's something about problem solving that maybe a degree doesn't get you and I think you'll become a master at that. And so my question to you would be, how do you kind of define success in this role you're in right now? I mean, it's a position that and and I'm I'm guilty of this is you achieve a lot of things throughout your year and your few years here and have made tremendous change, but there's always something else that we're trying to get to. There's always a new project.
Simon Gale:There's always new technology or there's something that we're trying to strive for. So we don't reflect very often and say, well, where were we when we started and where are you now? Because you're so motivated for for making the place the best it can be. So how do you kind of measure success at a facility that has very high standards?
Jo Wallen:You know, I think it's a I I was thinking about that because, obviously, as well, we've said how different the campus is. Sometimes every two years, the philosophy changes based on the president that comes in. Right? So it's very hard to kind of keep defining success every two years based on goals. Right?
Jo Wallen:So for me, my definition personally would be for every day to be, like, 1% better than the day prior. Right? Like, that's what I wanna do, and I want the campus to do that too, and I want the people around me to do that. So, therefore, like, if everyone's learning and getting better in every little area that we're doing, whether you said, like, what do I do on a daily basis? I've been doing RFPs for air conditioning units the last week, and it's not my error.
Jo Wallen:I don't know it, but I figured it out. So I've got myself 1% better because now I know what an RFP is, how to do it, and how to do it for an air conditioning company. Right? So, like, I think if everyone can just go in every day and try to be 1% better than the day prior or half a percent better, then that's successful to us because then everything's gonna get better. And it doesn't matter about anyone's goals, we're gonna get better.
Jo Wallen:And I mean, ultimately, we wanna grow the Racquet Sports industry. Right? So if we're on a business level, if we're seeing that, we're seeing more people play and come through the doors, then we're also being successful.
Kim Bastable:I would ask the same question of you, Simon. That's a good good like, because we we really can define it for ourselves at some level as a leader. I mean, there's the dollars at the end. But what would you just do that define as your definition of success?
Simon Gale:Kim, this wasn't on the plan for today. I wasn't supposed to be answering questions. I would say that the ability if I look at the role I'm in, being able to say that I have a team that's that's on the same page and we've got good people around us, and I look at look at the growth over three or four years and say, look at look at who's working for us now and look at the quality of people that we're starting to attract. We're doing something right from a culture point of view, and we get that feedback that that it's a good place to work. And I think when Joe came in, that was one of the first things we talked about was the culture and trying to elevate that.
Simon Gale:Not that it was bad, but just how do we make it even stronger? And so that would be one thing. And then, you know, I come from the small business world where profit is your measure of success in addition to all the team building and all that. But you come from this profit center where you've got to make money and it's taken me a long time to get used to. Yes, we have to have a return, but we also donate a tremendous amount of money and time and resources to the mission.
Simon Gale:And that balance of what's good for the mission, what's good for the campus, what's good for my specific department, that's a real push and pull at times in a good way to talk about how do we make the campus great. And so I think the elevation of events and the amount of people that come through the campus today and the amount of people who come for experiences, that will also be a measure of of success for me.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. Love that. That's good. I I sit here with two USTA people on the on the podcast and I I asked the question, and this is also not on our agenda. But but I'm a little intrigued because you guys are both leaders and you're both people that could get tough questions put to you because you might be you're in charge.
Kim Bastable:And what do you do if you encounter the people? There are some negative voices that are anti USTA. They think there's, you know, should be a different vision or whatever they wanna say. And I think, frankly, any club has their person out there that's just a little bit questioning what the leadership is doing and why are you doing that and why did you make that decision. What's your response in general when you encounter someone that is just asking you tough questions or or confronting you?
Jo Wallen:I think a lot of times when people just wanna be hard. Right? They want they want to feel hard. So when they're set and we do. We have a lot of people that, you know, do not like USTA for whatever reason.
Jo Wallen:And but a lot of times, they just want to be heard and they want to feel that their opinion matters. So a lot of times, I I really first of all, I will not take it personally. I do not, and I don't really take stuff personally because I it's just not no one no work can define myself as a human being. Right? That's me and my personal opinion of myself.
Jo Wallen:So I don't take it personally. I try to listen to them. I try to tell them they're being heard and say, I hear you. And then a lot of times, I put it back on them to say, what are some of your thoughts of how we can improve? So therefore, I'm not defending us, and I'm not getting into a, you know, a contest of ego or who's right or wrong.
Jo Wallen:I a lot of people, they they just they wanna complain, but then they don't have any solutions. Right? So it's like, okay. I hear you. I understand your frustration.
Jo Wallen:What do you suggest we could do? And then you say, thank you so much. I appreciate, you know, appreciate this conversation. And I learned something. I always tell them that I want something because I'm hearing another opinion.
Jo Wallen:And it may be a different opinion than I have, but I I hear it and I'm like, okay. That's a perception out there. And I thank them for their time. So I think it also diffusing situations as well is really important because I think when I was younger, I'd be like, well, you know what? You can do it.
Jo Wallen:Like, what do you do better? Do you know and it's like, okay. We're not gonna go that way. We're gonna do respect. And, like, we kind of we do that with our programming team sometimes.
Jo Wallen:You have parents. You have whatever a customer comes in and just feel like, just be quiet, listen to them, and then ask them what they think we should do or what they would do, and then say thank you. And then you can take what they say, and you can do what you want with it.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. Simon, do you have another method? I take Joe's right now. Let's see where yours is.
Simon Gale:Yeah. You can ask me to try and top that or match it. That's a real challenge. That was a great answer. I think when I first came to the campus, I I realized quickly just with with the the logo on the front of the building, who you're working for and what the scrutiny you are under with everything you say, how you say it.
Simon Gale:People just The things I was saying before I came to the campus are very similar to what I say now, but more people are listening and scrutinizing it than they were before. It's the same message. But I think the expectations I always say to the team that the minute someone walks through the doors or signs up for something here, their expectations are so high because it's the national campus. And it's very difficult to meet those expectations, but that is our goal is to strive for it. And as Joe said, I think it's very you're you're always never enough.
Simon Gale:Like, oh, I wish they did this. They should have that. They didn't do this at check-in. There's not enough technology. There's the pros should be better.
Simon Gale:You know, whatever it is, it's never enough a lot of the time, but you keep trying to get there for them. And I think as Joe said, the ability to not take it personally, I was not as good at that twenty years ago. But after fifteen, twenty years in New York, that certainly hardened me up a little bit and and I learned how to handle difficult customers. And I think you start to be able to say, like Joe mentioned, the ability to listen and not react to a comment. And then I like to repeat somebody's comment and say, so if I'm hearing you correct, this is what your concern is.
Simon Gale:And sometimes when they hear it again, they either redefine it or say, I'm not really saying that. And I say, okay, just want to make sure we're on the same page. And then thanks so much. This is an opportunity for us to get better and we work on it. I think the problem is if you don't make note of it and act on it and inform your team and say, here's a chance to get better, then you're just lip servicing these people and they walk out and you've done nothing to try and appease their concern.
Simon Gale:So similar to Joe, think, and and just understanding how much the expectations are elevated when someone walks through these doors.
Kim Bastable:Yeah. No. For sure. I mean, that's why I kind of asked the question. But I think that's true of anybody who's putting money down to be a member of a club.
Kim Bastable:They do have a certain level of expectation. So I think that's something encountered by many of our our leaders. So let's skip to, where do you go professionally, Joe? What's the next step? Anything that you're thinking about it?
Kim Bastable:I mean, you're you're still young?
Jo Wallen:I mean, obviously, I always think about next steps, and I've never really as I said, I've been thrown into a lot of stuff. So I truly believe that if every day I try and grow and get better, that some opportunity will present itself, and then I'll make the right decision. I will say the last, it's been interesting because I had the honor of actually going to Paris and commentating for the Olympics. And I'd done the Paralympics before with wheelchair tennis, and so I dabbled in that. But doing the Olympics was a different level when you're actually doing Alcaraz, Nadal, like Djokovic, gold medal matches.
Jo Wallen:You're kinda like, oh, wow. And I'm heading back to Paris again. So I think that, like, taking that in some way and including it in what I do, I've got a long way before I get bored here. We've got a lot of projects coming up. But so I I'm really an affirm believer in just a lifelong learner, keep getting better at everything.
Jo Wallen:And then when the right opportunity presents itself, you take it without really questioning. You go for it. Even if you don't think you're good enough or you don't have the education, you're gonna go for it and figure it out. So, yeah, obviously, there's goals, but I think just getting better every day. And then when the opportunity hopefully presents itself or you have to go looking for the opportunity if you don't feel valued, and that's not happening right now.
Jo Wallen:So I'll keep getting better every single day. And when the opportunity presents itself like Olympics did or Paralympics, I will be jumping at it. And when it any other opportunity presents itself that I think is good for me, I would jump for it.
Kim Bastable:I love that you were able to do that. So you were able to merge that, you know, make that happen despite quite high responsibilities at the campus. So your your your boss seems to be supportive of you getting outside of your USTA job, or was that a USTA role?
Jo Wallen:No. It was not a USTA role. I definitely I mean, you know, we have an amazing, like, benefits package here, which I'm sure Simon's talked about before. And it obviously is not just for the pros. It's for us, so we have plenty time.
Jo Wallen:But also, they're very good, and my boss specifically is very good at letting me take the opportunities that present itself. And, obviously, you know, it is it's a good byproduct for the USTA to have someone from their staff, you know, commentating and speaking internationally. So I'm sure that that is not helping anybody, but he was very, very up for it and was very excited that I was doing it.
Kim Bastable:Well, that's exciting. I think we will see you in many roles going forward. And I think that the lesson to leaders is really, as you say, continue learning, be well prepared, be ready for those opportunities, and and not be afraid. I mean, I think there's certainly a great message. Any other message you would like to send on takeaways?
Jo Wallen:Yeah. I mean, I think with leadership as well, I think you have to remember when you get into a leadership, probably 85% of my time is spent leading people, and the other 15% is managing things, whether it's projects or whatever. And I think that sometimes when you get into leadership, you don't always know that, but it's spent with people and really helping other people grow. So I would say that, you know, with people looking to become leaders, and we've done some interviews recently, and I don't think that point's necessarily getting across yet. You know?
Jo Wallen:I think that people have to understand that when you get into a leadership role, you spend more time leading people and helping other people than you do actually on things, right, projects. So managing leading people and managing things.
Kim Bastable:That's excellent. I've never heard the number, but that's you're absolutely right. Simon, any final thoughts?
Simon Gale:No. I think, you know, there's some really good takeaways from from what Joe's said today. I really like when you go into a new role, the importance of listening and assessing before making changes. Don't think you come in and know it all. Let's see what the people who actually do the job know and then work work backwards from there.
Simon Gale:The importance of having clear processes and systems, you know, is it a people or a process issue? And and if you don't have good systems in place, you need to establish those. And then I think just the importance of problem solving. Joe kept talking about solving problems, even the the fun she's had doing air conditioning for the last two weeks. You know, it's just it's what's in front of you.
Simon Gale:You solve the problem, you learn from it, and and you're better off for it next time. Hopefully, it's way past her time here that the air conditioning goes, and it needs to be fixed again. So
Kim Bastable:That's my problem is we get wise about things, and then we don't need to do that knowledge have that knowledge is is no longer useful because we don't need it again. So we need to share it with somebody else. So anybody needing an air conditioning system needs to call Joe right now.
Jo Wallen:Yeah. Or someone wants to yeah. If someone wants to service our our preventative maintenance air conditioning, let me know. I've got the BIP form ready for you.
Kim Bastable:Alright. Excellent. Appreciate your time. Love the conversation. We're here to inspire leaders, and, hopefully, we've done that today.
Kim Bastable:So thank you, Joe, for your time.
Jo Wallen:Thanks for having me. Super fun. Thanks, Joe.
Kim Bastable:Alright. We'll see you next time on Racquet Fuel.
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