Coach Your People, Not Just the Program - with Emma Doyle
Welcome to Racquet Fuel, where we launch into great conversations and share powerful tools to help you become a stronger rackets leader. Your hosts are Kim Bastable, a former tennis player and now the director of professional rackets management at the University of Florida, and Simon Gale, the USTA senior director of racket sports development. From TED Talk to Racquet Fuel, we hear today from Emma Doyle, a former tennis coach and now leadership trainer who inspires many with her energy and zest for excellence. Here are Kim and Simon.
Kim Bastable:Welcome to Racquet Fuel. We're excited to have you back and excited to have our guest today, Emma Doyle. She's a tennis coach, but far more. An exercise science expert, certified in emotional intelligence, neuro linguistic programming, strength coach, high performance coach, leadership coach. The list kinda goes on, Simon.
Kim Bastable:It wears me out.
Simon Gale:Look. I've known Emma quite a while now and followed her career, and her transition over the last, I don't know, five, ten years has been fascinating to watch. And we catch up once in a while, and it's like, where in the world are you? What are you doing? And it's really interesting to to follow.
Simon Gale:So I'm excited to listen to her story and have her tell it, but also excited just to have another Aussie on. And once in a while, we need another Aussie accent on this podcast.
Kim Bastable:All those Aussies. Yeah. She's from Denver now. She's from Denver. Come on.
Simon Gale:Yeah. That's like saying I'm from Florida, Kim. That just doesn't hold. It doesn't hold.
Kim Bastable:So No. Emma, your, TED Talk really impressed me. I saw it. I I I loved the word choice. I'm I'm kinda envious of this whole communication element.
Kim Bastable:The word choice, the tennis racket, the ball, the way you did just packaged it all together, top notch. We're just we're just excited to have you today.
Emma Doyle:Well, thank you so much. It's absolute pleasure to be here and right back at you. Both of your journeys I've followed and super impressed. So just excited to have a rich conversation and hopefully give some of your listeners some tools.
Simon Gale:So let's start off with one that that always interests us is the transition from being a tennis player to becoming a tennis coach. And and now you currently have your own business, Coach M. Tell us a bit about kind of your business and that transition from player to coach.
Emma Doyle:Well, I guess the interesting thing about my story is the fact that I wanted to be a coach from the minute I started coaching. Now I know not everyone has that early epiphany, but that was my story. So I was 14 years of age when I first took a tennis lesson because the kick serve, everyone was like it had just come out. So everyone was like, oh. My coach was like, if you, you know, take one night of coaching, I'll teach you this new serve.
Emma Doyle:And I was like, yes. But I remember walking off that court and just I got to be a kid. I got to wear a track suit to work. I got to see the smiles on their faces. And I was like, this this is a pretty cool job compared to what my friends were even starting to get hospitality jobs.
Emma Doyle:And I was like, oh, I don't think I wanna work at McDonald's. And I'd been quite entrepreneurial. I had this paper round, which was not a great return on investment. So tennis coaching, I I had an early love for it, which not I know most people have that playing experience first. So my journey is actually in reverse.
Emma Doyle:And it wasn't until I got into the course of my dreams, sports coaching and administration, where David Parkin, the the famous carton football coach, he was the course coordinator, and he pulls me into his office and he said, do you wanna be the best coach you can be? I was like, yes. What have I gotta do? And he basically kicked me out of the course. He said, well, have you maximized your playing potential?
Emma Doyle:Have you become the best tennis player you can be? And I was like, absolutely not. There's this thing in America. I know nothing about it. It's called college tennis.
Emma Doyle:And my college recruitment process was literally send a VHS video in the mail out to 10 colleges where I knew other Aussies had gone. And the first guy rings back, you know, Dale Short. And coach Short says, oh, you know, here in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, we have a low crime rate. And I was like, hey, mom. What's a crime rate?
Emma Doyle:I had no idea what he was talking about. And this is one of my early stories, and I've told it many times now on different platforms. But it's a good reinforcement of no matter if you become a coach after you've maximized your playing or you had an early moment where you wanna be a coach, being able to still push yourself to the level where you experience grit, pressure, resilience, I think that's part of unleashing your coaching potential in my early story. So I just thought I'd share that one about how it first so happened for me.
Simon Gale:And what do you do today with Coach M? You've evolved from tennis coaching and and going in this new direction. Just explain a little bit what Coach M is.
Emma Doyle:Yeah. Thank you for asking. So essentially, now, I'm still a coach because, you know, it's in my blood. Right? And I go into companies and I help create coaching cultures in the workplace.
Emma Doyle:So what do I mean by coaching culture? Essentially, it equals your artifacts, your vision, your mission, and your values, plus your behaviors, the way we do things around here, plus, and this is the critical piece that many companies are missing, are the coaching tools. So how do managers and leaders coach their people to bring out their best with regards to accountability, responsibility, ownership, which is one thing that's probably the biggest complaint these days from managers and leaders in the workplace about this I don't know if you saw the stat that came out recently about 69% of the workforce being disengaged. 69 that's in The US, costing the global economy. It's something like $436,000,000,000 in productivity.
Emma Doyle:Productivity. So this is something I am so passionate about. And business coaching has been around since the nineteen eighties. So what I'm teaching is not necessarily new, but it's now more important than ever to engage the workforce. And I I found a new lease of life on what I'm doing right now.
Emma Doyle:I love it because you know what? I'm still coaching. I'm coaching managers and leaders on how to coach their people. And I just pinch myself every day that coach m gets to do this.
Simon Gale:How did your kind of coach developer skills back in the tennis coaching days transfer over? And, you know, that's a big difference from going from being a tennis coach or coach manager, that type of role, to now working with teams who are in a completely different profession. But once you strip it back, do you see some real consistencies and maybe less intimidation and say, oh, these are common issues and and I've dealt with some of this. Maybe talk about that a little bit.
Emma Doyle:Yeah. You know, off air, Kim was even just mentioning the importance of the journey over time. Right? So this I missed out probably a twenty year gap there. So just so we're clear, I didn't just go from here to there.
Emma Doyle:And in that gap, there are two pivotal moments. The first one I wanna share is when I was, you know, representing Australia at the highest level at a world championship level, taking teams away. You know what it's like. We're in Australia, we have to travel for six weeks at a time on the other side of the world, and you're there responsible for these teenagers. Often, because I had a strength and conditioning background, I was a strength coach, I was the coach.
Emma Doyle:I was the mom. I was the friend. I was, you know, every hat you have to wear on the road. And I would take these teams away, and I was like, why can I bring out the best in these players but not these players? And I was completely burnt out.
Emma Doyle:In addition, how do I deal with the parents? Right? So I actually got out of tennis. I thought I was gonna have a complete career change, and that's when I met Natalie Ashdown, who also was co author of my book, What Makes a Great Coach. And she changed my world in terms of the what I learned and the experience that I had where she taught me all about people management, people skills, learning preferences, behavioral styles.
Emma Doyle:How do I adapt my communication? That was my big moment. How do I keep my authentic self, my energy, which is one of my superpowers that everyone says that they resonate with? And how do I adapt my communication to bring out the best of who's in front of me, not just teach and coach the way that I learned best and the way that my behavior was? And that was a huge moment.
Emma Doyle:It catapulted me back into coaching coaches how to coach. So shout out to Tennis Australia for giving me an opportunity for about ten years. I was back in coaching coaches how to coach in tennis. So I had a huge development with regards to teaching the the community coaching course, the level one, the level two. Even when I was back home just now, I I did another workshop for regional coaches on on leadership.
Emma Doyle:And it was the the skills that beyond the the biomechanics. Right? Because I'll I'll go one for one with anyone still on the biomechanics of the serve. I'm still a junkie, and I love it. I had a good base, and I'm I'm very grateful for that base in technical knowledge.
Emma Doyle:But the minute I learned, less is more. The power of the pause, Verbal diarrhea. Hold back. Do I need to get all of my knowledge out of my head onto this player? No.
Emma Doyle:I don't. And that is leadership. Because the minute you come off the court, if you think that you're just gonna walk into somewhere and imprint your vision on people without actually understanding their needs and their challenges, good luck. My favorite Gandhi quote is, there go my people. I must follow them for I am their leader.
Emma Doyle:So the pivotal moment, one, was getting off court to be able to to learn these skills to where I am today. And then the pivotal moment, number two, really was COVID. That was a huge moment because I had come to America to become more of a keynote speaker. And when my whole world was shattered in set within seven days, and I had speaking gigs in tennis, sport, corporate, universities all over the world, and Monday canceled Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, my whole my whole identity was gone. That was when I stripped back to say, alright.
Emma Doyle:Well, who am I at the core? And I'm a coach. And so that was that other pivotal turning point where I was like, you know what? This is a calling that I need to expand beyond just tennis and sport, and I need to really make an impact beyond just a keynote, beyond just a you know, I'm not saying keynote. Talks can't do a lot, as you said.
Emma Doyle:Thank you for the shout out to my TEDx talk. And it's it's the the key messages within that, for example, is how I live my life today. So one of the most important messages with regards to unleashing female potential and anyone's potential is the power of next time. You know? And one more thing I'll just say just because I'm on a roll, if that's okay, is just regarding how many times we get stuck in the past and how many times especially I see it in country clubs.
Emma Doyle:Everyone's so stuck in the past of what's gone wrong previously, and and that's important to understand. But future based thinking, my TEDx talk is about next time. How do we empower the inner voice? What do we need to do better next time? How can how can we approach this in a different way?
Emma Doyle:Innovation, creativity, look forward. I mean, understand what where you're at and why you're there, but don't spend too long on that. I see that problem a lot in the workplace. Everyone on the hamster wheel, everyone's just talking about the past, and that's one of my key two words. Throw next time in front of anything, and that's a great tip for even coaches listening out there.
Emma Doyle:Next time you're on court, stop focusing on why'd you miss that ball? Why why did you go down the line when you're out of position? All those questions that are just so disempowering to strengthen that inner voice. So there's some of the tools. That's a very specific practical tool that I still teach in the boardroom today.
Emma Doyle:So thank you for asking.
Kim Bastable:You did mention that in the TED talk. I was gonna bring that up as you you say future based questions. Give us a few examples of future based questions. And then I would like to know just a little bit, have you always been just that kind of emotionally sensitive, emotionally intelligent individual? You have a certification in emotional intelligence, but my question is, did you have to learn that, or did you have it, or do a little of both?
Kim Bastable:So there's two questions for you.
Emma Doyle:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I'll I'll tackle that one first and and just say that I'm the third of four children, big family. My granddad lived with us.
Emma Doyle:We lived in Australia, then England, then Australia, then England. So I I had to adapt to my environment a little bit in making friends at different primary schools growing up. And, also, to be heard at the dinner table, you sort of had to had to speak up. And, definitely, the role that I play at Christmas Day is is a bit of the glue of the family explaining what everybody meant. Now has empathy come naturally to me?
Emma Doyle:Yes. I'm a little bit more of a sensitive soul, and I have been able to have that gift to read people's emotions from quite a young age. And having said that, the leaders and managers that I come across, are they born with this skill? Absolutely not. Can you learn it?
Emma Doyle:Absolutely, you can. In my book, practice six is empathy. Right? So this is based on the research of over 500 of the world's leading coaches synthesizing to the top 10 practices. And I call them practices, not chapters, because I still meet people every day.
Emma Doyle:And it's a daily practice to practice empathy, listening, and not you don't have to walk in my shoes. You just have to walk alongside me and say, do I see what they see? So I love that from a perspective of can anyone learn empathy? Can anyone understand somebody's map of the world? And I always another line that I use all the time is the map is not the territory.
Emma Doyle:Right? So the spoken word is often quite not the truth, what's actually happening beyond the surface. So therefore, you have to get through questioning, unpack that to understand what's going on. And then the minute you unpack that from a understanding of help me understand where you're at, the minute we do that, now I wanna go more future based. So what can we do differently next time?
Emma Doyle:What other options do we have here? If we where do we see ourself in six months, twelve months, five years? Next time, how could you deal with that customer in a different way? Imagine if you were in my shoes. How would you handle this situation?
Emma Doyle:So see how they're all future based little question starters, and people need conversation frameworks. And my all time favorite favorite one, I'm curious to dot dot dot. Throw I'm curious in front of every anything and, you know, providing you've got a little bit of trust and a little bit of rapport. Don't necessarily start out with that, but you can depending on on the person reading the situation. There's some great conversation frameworks which I spend so much of my time helping managers and leaders with conversation frameworks.
Emma Doyle:And sorry. I'm on a roll. So I'm just gonna keep you
Kim Bastable:think it's great. In fact, I'm thinking, you know, Simon doesn't realize that we just turned into a marriage and a parenting podcast too. This is good stuff.
Simon Gale:Go ahead, Simon. Hey. We always talk about things running in different directions and then bring it back on track, so it's all good.
Emma Doyle:It's all good. I could just give you one more because this is something that was so pivotal in Oklahoma last week. One of the people in the and these were CEOs. And the CEO says, I start all my meetings with the five why questions. You know, why did this happen?
Emma Doyle:Why did that go wrong? Why are the numbers not better? Why why is the business I'm like, oh, and how's that working for you? So we flipped it into I taught him the EARS model, which simply think e a r s. So e is just elicit all the great things.
Emma Doyle:So when you're starting a meeting, directors, managers, leaders listening to this, start with what specifically are some of the great things that have happened since our last meeting, for example. That's the e, elicit. The next one is a is amplify. So take a moment to celebrate or can say congratulations or that's awesome that that happened. And then you say, and what else?
Emma Doyle:One of my favorite coaching questions. We call it the or question, a w e, because it's an awesome question. Just say and what else? Then the r stands for reflect, which is what did you learn? What a great question.
Emma Doyle:And then s, right, then you start the meeting. Start over, then you move into the goal of the meeting. So that's a practical coaching tool that I teach in all of my leader as coach workshops. And I've had a number of tennis people, because of my background and my and my connections, go through just leader as coach. It's a six hour course that I run and that is the first tool that we teach.
Emma Doyle:And we teach, obviously, we role model everything, so it's all learned by doing. So hopefully, that was just a little gold nugget they can add to their leadership toolkit.
Simon Gale:Absolutely. I wrote it down so I'll be stealing that one from you. Of the things you do within your business is a podcast. So you host the coaching podcast and I've listened to it a bit and I know that you ask a consistent question of all your guests. So tell us what that question is and then maybe some of the themes or consistencies of people's answers.
Emma Doyle:Yeah. This is how the question came about. Literally, was a pro am in New York. Roger Federer was walking from the courts to his helicopter. He there was hundreds of people, and he accidentally turned around and put his arm around me.
Emma Doyle:Just so funny. Like, it was total luck. I was in the right place at the right time, and I knew I had thirty seconds with arguably the greatest player in the world. And I said, hey, Rog, In one to a maximum of three words, what do you think makes a great coach? Because I knew I only had that short amount of time.
Emma Doyle:And so that's became the only question that I still ask of every single guest. And how cool that that actually was the catalyst for the book. So literally of over 500 people that I asked the questions are coming up to almost 200 episodes on my podcast. I released fortnightly. And that is the central question.
Emma Doyle:So the book is synthesized the data into the top 10 of the responses. So 328 tennis coaches, it was like 71 sports coaches of different sports and a 105 business coaches. So that's interesting too when you take the business coaches, what can the tennis coaches learn and and vice versa. Super interesting. But some of the common themes are all the things we've spoke about already, to be honest.
Emma Doyle:Listening, empathy, huge one, I I think, is totally missing in our Racquet Sports industry is decision making, empowering decision making within others. Managers and leaders are so overwhelmed and overworked and tired because they have no time, but they solve everybody's problems. Instead of actually helping empower people with decision making from telling to asking, from solving everybody's problems to unlocking the potential that lives within them, and helping people grow into them their best selves. So there's some of the things that come to mind, and passion was obviously very high, and curiosity's in there, and, of course, communication.
Kim Bastable:That's great. So we've talked before about the fact that I think sometimes in tennis, racket sports, it being a singles game, there's a real level of challenge because we've become very self sufficient. We don't delegate well. But you probably have seen many challenges. You've mentioned communication is another.
Kim Bastable:What trips up leaders in general from being their best? What what what gets in the way?
Emma Doyle:A 100% what we what we just said. So just reinforcing the fact that they can't get out of their own way because they've got great intentions. So don't get me wrong here. Their intention is to share their wisdom and their knowledge and maybe even a good time to talk about the generational differences. There's something called crystallized intelligence and fluid intelligence.
Emma Doyle:Just I won't go into it, but check it out. Just Google it if you're interested. Because once you hit a certain age, your intelligence after you know, becomes more crystallized and you're less resistant to adapt and change. We maybe will see it in our grandparents and parents. They wanna pass on their knowledge to this younger generation.
Emma Doyle:And the way that they're passing on their knowledge, the younger generation are not listening. So this is what I'm seeing as a huge challenge, especially in manufacturing construction companies where family owned businesses been around for a long time. Even we think about country clubs. They've got all this amazing history, and they wanna continue to do things in the old way. And that's not at all how the next generation of workers that's not their experience and map of the world.
Emma Doyle:So I've listened to your podcast before as well, and I totally love how you're coming up with ideas to help leaders and directors find creative ways to understand somebody's story. Because this next generation, for talent to thrive in the workplace, they need freedom. Now I'm not saying you let them do whatever they want, but they you have to understand their story to be able to map out the best type of schedule and what's gonna motivate them. So I see more of a flat structure. So I still want my generation baby boomers and generation x's to pass on their their knowledge and their their core values and their respect, But how they do it needs to be through a coaching lens cap, a business coaching lens cap.
Emma Doyle:And a business coach is the definition of business coaching is unlocking a person's potential to maximize their own performance. Wait.
Kim Bastable:You mean it's not telling them what
Emma Doyle:to do? Would you believe that? That's unbelievable, Kim. I mean, by the way, that's the definition I quoted from sir John Whitmore, who who actually worked with Timothy Galway, who wrote the inner game of tennis. So if you haven't read that, I mean, there, people.
Kim Bastable:I love that. Say that again.
Emma Doyle:The definition is coaching is unlocking a person's potential to maximize their own performance. So that is actually the business coaching definition. And I learned that in 2005, and it hit me like a train in my in my forehead. Because here's some of the things that I passionately believe since that day. People follow people, not titles.
Emma Doyle:Leadership is a role, not a job title. And I'll give you one more of my favorites. You are in the zone of influence, not the zone of control. And that is the biggest thing that I see that trips many leaders up. They they get in in their own way because this next generation does wanna learn from them, does wanna hear their story, and they wanna do it in a collaborative way.
Emma Doyle:They wanna be asked questions. They want the information to be a shared experience rather than a one way street or what I used to call war stories.
Simon Gale:So, Emma, in terms of unlocking potential, we're talking about people. When you talk about the actual business, which obviously can be direct obviously directly related, how do you help leaders move from we we talk about managing a business versus growing a business. You know, are you in the weeds managing it or you're actually spending time, devoted time to growing the business? What's your experience around that concept?
Emma Doyle:Yeah. I think that I would definitely say that most people are still wearing too many hats and they certainly do not block out time in their diary for curiosity or creativity. Or or perhaps they might have a two day retreat once a year where they do some strategic planning, but then they're always catching their tail, even dedicating two days to a strategic planning. Now they're two days behind, and it's so stressful. And how are they gonna keep up with the demand?
Emma Doyle:And, of course, we know what happens in that situation. Life has a way of writing itself on your face is one of my favorite lines. And, also, we know what happens because everybody sits down to a banquet of consequences. So if you are not dedicating time in your diary, and you you have to block it out. That's the key.
Emma Doyle:Have to have dedicated block out whether it's strategic planning. I love curiosity time. I love thinking outside the square, doing workshops that allow the the the mind to open up. I have done some corporate pickable team building workshops for a planning day to help them build curiosity. So I basically gave them the rules of pickleball, for example, and then said, right.
Emma Doyle:Change them if you want. What do what do you want? You want two bounces? Do you want you can pass to your partner. You know, do you wanna keep the kitchen, get rid of it, and just opened up their curiosity in relation to, right, what how can we think outside the square and get moving, movement, and learn through play.
Emma Doyle:We've we've lost our ability to play. We we get so bogged down in the gotta grow the business, gotta put put this in the diary, I gotta do this, and I gotta do that. Go somewhere. Do your next meeting on top of the tallest building in your area, and look down from a different perspective to open up curiosity and have fun with it. Enjoy it.
Emma Doyle:Like, to teach empathy, I use water balloons these days. And half the stuff I did with two to five year olds when I used to run wiggle tennis back in the day is stuff that I'm doing in the boardroom now, like resiliency. Keep keep two balloons in the air, and then do that for thirty seconds. Get up, get moving, and then go back and say, right. Where's where's our company at with resiliency?
Emma Doyle:What resiliency tools do we need to implement? How can we bring that behavior to life? So we have to think differently, and the only way to think differently is by listening to these podcasts. Now information is is freely available. I have my coach m chat GPT.
Emma Doyle:Right? There's so many tools out there to help you open up curiosity, and that's the one thing that still requires your thinking. You can't just throw it into AI and let it do the thinking for you. So, again, future based, future thinking is something that you have to dedicate time. Otherwise, you will fall off the hamster wheel.
Kim Bastable:That's innovative, and I love the visuals that you provide. I'm curious if the people in the boardroom are getting wet from the water balloons or not, but I guess that's okay.
Emma Doyle:Absolutely. Embrace it. Who cares?
Kim Bastable:They'll they'll laugh in the process probably.
Emma Doyle:That's right.
Kim Bastable:Alright. So the other thing a a big important part of your business has always been a passion for females and and, empowering them. And I'm just curious, how are you addressing that differently? How how do you tack that challenge? I have found personally that, obviously, there's many times that I'm approached, by females and that there's often just a level of of they're very cautious.
Kim Bastable:I would say they lack confidence, but they're yet they're very competent. They just don't realize it on their own maybe, and I just literally come beyond beside them, champion them, provide them some information to become more confident, and send them off. But I'm curious your approach is on on empowering females.
Emma Doyle:Yeah. So similarly to the tennis world, the world that I'm in quite frequently now is this it's around 20% of women. The Vistage workshops, CEOs, key executives, we've got 20% of women in the room. Same in manufacturing. There's, like, 20%.
Emma Doyle:So I feel like I'm in the same not industry, but I'm I'm faced with the same situation. And here's what I know. I don't do things necessarily differently, but this is my take on it. Confidence equals time plus experience. Now you're saying they're getting more confident over time.
Emma Doyle:Totally agree. But here's the key if they're listening to this. Here's what you short circuit somebody else's experience. They listen to this podcast. Maybe they reach out to you, me, other amazing women.
Emma Doyle:I've got my my Scottish vest on from Judy Murray, one of my all time favorite people in the world, an amazing coach that you can learn so much from even on YouTube these days. Right? So how do you short circuit the experience of something that you said or I said today and add it to your own coaching and leadership toolkit and see what works for you in your authentic style. Take one thing and take action. The only way I know how to be successful in my entire life is by taking action.
Emma Doyle:You've gotta take action. You can't just listen to this podcast and go, oh, yeah. The is model. Oh, that's a good idea, but give it a go. See what see what the feedback from the people is.
Emma Doyle:Today, I'm doing a presentation about the transformational gift as leader as champion, unlocking the potential loser within others. And I'm like, well, the transformational gift is what they say, not what I say is the transformational gift. What works for the people that you are leading and managing? So that's what I would say within unleashing female potential and empowering women, and do it layer by layer. The one thing that trips them up I've only ever met three girls where I said, you gotta step up and win for Australia today.
Emma Doyle:Same thing in coaching. I've only ever met three coaches where I was like, throw yourself in the deep end, and you'll be fine. You are gonna swim, girl. Guess what? 99% of the other people that I come across, I'm like, just stretch one layer.
Emma Doyle:Just one layer. Pick one thing that you're gonna work on. Get better at that, and then go and listen to another podcast or go and buy you a coffee at your convenience and ask you what has been your biggest failure and learn from that. What can I learn from Kim and Emma and Simon and all the free content and resources that are out there? But don't sit back and go, oh, that was a nice podcast.
Emma Doyle:Take action. Massive action in any direction. It's the only way I know how to be successful, and that's what I did as a 23 year old. Went to Florida, rang all the academies. No one gave me a job.
Emma Doyle:I said, I don't care. I'm coming anyway. I wanna learn the look. Find someone who's where you wanna be and get some mentoring, get some tips, and just take action on one thing. Just one thing.
Simon Gale:Yeah. I often talk about when I first got here and would go to conferences, and and I've passed this on to young leaders and said, $20 for lunch or breakfast with somebody you wanna pick their brain is a pretty cheap way to gain a lot of knowledge. It costs a lot more to go and watch them speakers, but if if you're at a conference and you've paid your registration fee, there's three breakfasts and three lunches and maybe a couple of dinners where you have an opportunity to grab someone and say, can I take you to breakfast tomorrow morning and pick your brain? You might have an hour with them. That's gold and and I did that consistently and so it's a very cheap investment for an education.
Simon Gale:So right to your point. Alright, we are running out of time but we could have kept going for ages. We're just warming up, I feel. But what we'd love to try and wrap this up with is is if there's like a key takeaway or a key message that you would love to leave leave us with, please fire away.
Emma Doyle:I would say that we are all the same and we are all different. Or in the words of a great running coach, we are all unique experiments of one. Be obsessed with understanding people better. That'll help you coach. It'll help you be a better leader because the power is theirs to claim.
Emma Doyle:That's one thing I think has been a bit of a through line of this episode. And lead with purpose and inspire with passion. Put people in your boat. Make sure your vision is clear so that they're all rowing in the same direction, but you don't you can't treat every individual in the boat the same. So you have to adapt your communication and ask curious questions and trust in them that they have the answer.
Emma Doyle:And if they don't, ask it in a different way. Find a different tool, but provide an environment for people to step into the best self that they can be.
Kim Bastable:That's excellent advice. I think it's a really obviously listening is a key key skill to understand other people, but I think it's accepting. We want people to live and think and do as we do, and that's about that's that's not gonna help us grow. That's what we think when we're in our twenties. Everybody should do it my way.
Kim Bastable:But, boy, as I've learned later, it's all about learning so much from other people in all different ways. But, yeah, asking it, understanding it, that's that's super advice. That's the emotional intelligence Yeah. That you have to realize that that's a great, great tool and great tip. So we we appreciate your time.
Kim Bastable:There's a lot here, Emma. We could your energy's contagious. We could certainly do more, I'm sure.
Emma Doyle:Well, I'll I'll finish with one one other thing. I was in California about two weeks ago, and I went to the Redwoods Forest. And I was just thinking about see the forest and the trees and the wisdom of the trees. Right? As many of those directors of country clubs, it's like the the trees are so tall.
Emma Doyle:They've got so much wisdom and history. How do you transfer that? And you do it by listening, which is the the key message that you just reinforced then. So important to listen to the voice of everybody so that you can lead them.
Kim Bastable:Very good. Very good. Thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it. Love the love the Aussie accent.
Kim Bastable:Love hanging out with these Aussie people. Really impressed. It's way past that accent, Emma. You're an impactful person with a lot to share. So thank you very much.
Simon Gale:Impact's a great word, Kim. You can feel it coming down the microphone. Right? The energy and enthusiasm. But the biggest challenge is keeping Emma to thirty minutes.
Simon Gale:That's the
Emma Doyle:challenge. Sorry.
Simon Gale:So much to give us. Sorry. I I appreciate the amount of information that you have. I think people who spend time around you know that your energy is infectious. So thanks for sharing some of it with us today.
Emma Doyle:Absolute pleasure. Appreciate you all and thanks for listening.
Kim Bastable:For sure. And I recommend the TED talk and recommend all the resources Emma has. There's the book and and just the podcast. There's a lot there. Thank you, Emma.
Kim Bastable:That's what we have for you today on Racquet Fuel. We'll speak to you next time.
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